Whinge, whinge, whinge - again.

[EFLImpudence]

Isn't it strange how politicians espouse democracy as the be all and end all -
unless the result isn't what they wanted.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33668002

 

[JBR]

Bring it on. I support Scottish independence wholeheartedly.

Give them a few years and they'll really have something to whinge about.

 

[Belboz]

Who is 'them' then JBR?

The SNP does NOT represent the entire Scottish Nation nor (as shown by the latest referendum) do The Scottish People want independence. Alex Salmond has always been a moaning **** and always will be. He is a 'wannabe' and, thanks to the media, has been quite successful at it (albeit so has Joey from Essex - says it all)

The SNP may well have won a massive majority of seats in Scotland at the last election but there is No PR and a lot of the voting for The SNP was down to Scottish Labour failing to make their case (a reflection of the current state of Uk Labour) as opposed to the voters loving The SNP. The Tories were never going to win more than 1 or 2 seats and The Libs suffered by shooting themselves in the foot during the coalition.

Don't instantly tar every Scot with the SNP/Salmond/Sturgeon brush. Aside from a certain percentage of the population who would vote for Hitler if he promised them a pie and a pint, there are many, many Scots who do not seek independence nor do they have any issue with England or The English.

 

[Whitespirit66]

The Greeks voted for independence from the ruinous single currency. Their masters in Brussels will move mountains to stop them getting what they want and keep them under the cosh. Ironic really, seeing that the word 'democracy', and it's concept, are both Greek inventions.

Democracy is just an illusion.

 

[JBR]

Who is 'them' then JBR?

From your comments, then, I assume you are a Scot.
I have many Scottish friends (in England) who agree with you and have nothing against England, nor do they want independence.

Scotland, like England, is a democracy and if the MAJORITY of Scots want independence, so be it. As everywhere else, the minority might not like it. (A similar thing happened to me when, like four million others, I voted for UKIP and was rewarded with a single MP!)

I believe that if Scotland did gain its independence, Salmond and Sturgeon would have some serious explaining to do when the inevitable happened from both the independence brigade and also the unionists.

 

[Belboz]

That's the point JBR - the majority voted against independence and, I would suggest, those who didn't vote are unlikely to be pro-independence.

 

[JBR]

That's the point JBR - the majority voted against independence and, I would suggest, those who didn't vote are unlikely to be pro-independence.

I must have misunderstood.
Yes, I know in the referendum the majority vote was against independence, but I thought that in the more recent elections the majority voted for the SNP, whose leaders are all in favour of Scottish independence, which I would have thought must indicate that they, too, were in favour of independence.
I'm afraid we cannot know what the non-voters would have wanted. If they were unhappy with the idea of Scottish independence, I would have thought that they'd have voted for someone other than the SNP...

like UKIP, perhaps.

 

[Belboz]

IMHO, the reason The SNP got into so many seats was not necessarily a reflection of their pro-independence stance but a variety of other factors e.g.

(1) Lib Dems feeling they had been sold out by the coalition
(2) Failure of Labour Party to form a cohesive strategy and thus an effective alternative
(3) Annoyance at what voters saw as a U-turn by Cameron in giving (or not) more devolved powers to Scotland
(4) Increasing loss of a foothold by Scottish Tories

Therefore, IMHO, the return of so many seats to The SNP does not necessarily imply the majority now want independence. One must also bear in mind that, whilst the turnout was high, it was still almost 30% of the population under.

Of course, the reduction of the voting age by next year thereby encompassing 16 and 17 year olds may alter any subsequent referendum.

 

[JBR]

Of course, the reduction of the voting age by next year thereby encompassing 16 and 17 year olds may alter any subsequent referendum.

Yes, I can see why they've done that; on the grounds that youngsters are more likely to fall for the independence idea.

Perhaps not of much interest here, but I believe the voting age ought to be 21 by when young people have had the chance to experience a bit of adult life and may make more informed decisions.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The voting age in the referendum was sixteen.

The thread was not intended to malign the people but politicians who ignore the vote if the result does not suit them.

 

[JBR]

The thread was not intended to malign the people but politicians who ignore the vote if the result does not suit them.

Oh I agree with you there.
The EU are particularly adept at doing that. We've all heard of the referendum vote in Ireland which was repeated until the required result was obtained.
The same will happen here next year, of course!

 

[Belboz]

The voting age in the referendum was sixteen.

I am aware of that and it was engineered by The SNP specifically for the referendum. However, they have gone further now and the voting age [Scotland] will drop for all elections, AFAIK, in 2016. As a result, those youngsters who were under age this year will be of age to vote on all matters next year and thereafter. The reason I said this may well impact on a future referendum is because The SNP 'smoke and mirrors' seem to be particularly effective with the young for reasons I won't bore you with.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

The SNP confuse wanting independence with voting for them. Wanting more control over Scotland, but being part of the UK is I think the preferred choice of most Scottish people. There is nothing confusing about voting SNP, but not wanting independence. But maybe they will organise more votes until the people give the 'correct' answer.

 

[DP]

That's the point JBR - the majority voted against independence and, I would suggest, those who didn't vote are unlikely to be pro-independence.

Look at the fallout; was nearly fifty- fifty with Cameron and other party leader promising Scotts the earth. After the votes were counted, Cameron decided he did not have anything to offer. Come the elections, almost all seats went to SNP because of earlier promises and then not reneging on the promises.

 

[EFLImpudence]

...but it wasn't Cameron's party who lost seats to the SNP.