Who needs an education?

[Notch7]

From where does the money come, that pays for vital public services then?

sadly not so much paid in tax from them

 

[Notch7]

There is a skills shortage in this country. We should be training our own people instead of taking the easy option and buying in those skills from abroad.

We should provide grants to the most needed and most vocational training -nurses, doctors, radiographers etc.

my niece is a radiographer, when she did her degree 95% of the graduates doing her course got a job in that field.

 

[charliegolf]

sadly not so much paid in tax from them

My point to Mottie...

 

[fillyboy]

With less and less money being put into education, why do exam results/attainment improve year on year.

 

[Mottie]

I voted for brexit which turned out to be a colossal waste of money

billions spent for zero benefit.

Yeah well, your vote still counts. Thanks.

 

[charliegolf]

With less and less money being put into education, why do exam results/attainment improve year on year.

That's simple... the government of the day ensures that it's so. That way, they look better.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The real area we need to invest in is manual labour...

I remember leaving school 15 years ago and the drive then under Blair was for everybody to stay on and eventually go to university. A few didn't and decided instead to do an apprenticeship, but there were many more who deep down just wanted to work on the tools. Unfortunately they ended up going into higher education and getting a degree worth next-to-nothing in the real world, but fortunately some have since gone into skilled work and are doing very well.

For more than 20 years (i.e prior to the Polish "wave") some in the construction industry were saying that we needed to invest more in training the next generation. Unfortunately, in our sector successive governments encouraged builders to become "lean and mean" management companies rather than being employers of a skilled workforce, so they ended up with no trades level employees at all, and so no need to train apprentices. All the dirty, heavy stuff was going to be done by specialist sub-contractors who would be in competition with each other to get the work. What that means is that the subs often don't have the "fat" to do stuff like take on and train apprentices, so when loads of (initially) cheaper, skilled, experienced East Europeans came onto the market in about 2002 or so they were welcomed with open arms. Now, of course, many have gone home and we find ourselves with almost no vocational education going on in schools and precious few subs wanting to take on the financial risk of employing an apprentice, who in any case is going to be the bottom of the barrel because many of those worth having who would have previously come into the trades are now at university doing degrees in useful courses like "surf management" or graphics arts. Sort of explains the **** poor quality of the apprentices we do get nowadays (when we get them) and why so many of them don't stick

 

[Mottie]

sadly not so much paid in tax from them

Yeah well the other political parties are saying that too but don't worry, that will all change when one of the other parties get to power. If you believe that, you'll believe anything.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

With less and less money being put into education, why do exam results/attainment improve year on year.

Logically, isn't that a statistical impossibility?

 

[SirGalahad]

With less and less money being put into education, why do exam results/attainment improve year on year.

No simple answer to that, but factors include rise of tuition, kids and teachers focusing on passing exams rather than wider learning,

 

[fillyboy]

That's simple... the government of the day ensures that it's so. That way, they look better.

Possibly, I don't know how much influence the gov has over Ofsted, exam boards etc.

Logically, isn't that a statistical impossibility?

It should be, but it isn't.

No simple answer to that, but factors include rise of tuition, kids and teachers focusing on passing exams rather than wider learning,

You win a coconut. Do you think that's because of lack of funding or an obsession with results.

 

[SirGalahad]

You win a coconut. Do you think that's because of lack of funding or an obsession with results.

A coconut? My my, filly being generous was expecting the filly banana.

Goodharts Law. Gove take a bow.

 

[fillyboy]

For more than 20 years (i.e prior to the Polish "wave") some in the construction industry were saying that we needed to invest more in training the next generation. Unfortunately, in our sector successive governments encouraged builders to become "lean and mean" management companies rather than being employers of a skilled workforce, so they ended up with no trades level employees at all, and so no need to train apprentices. All the dirty, heavy stuff was going to be done by specialist sub-contractors who would be in competition with each other to get the work. What that means is that the subs often don't have the "fat" to do stuff like take on and train apprentices, so when loads of (initially) cheaper, skilled, experienced East Europeans came onto the market in about 2002 or so they were welcomed with open arms. Now, of course, many have gone home and we find ourselves with almost no vocational education going on in schools and precious few subs wanting to take on the financial risk of employing an apprentice, who in any case is going to be the bottom of the barrel because many of those worth having who would have previously come into the trades are now at university doing degrees in useful courses like "surf management" or graphics arts. Sort of explains the **** poor quality of the apprentices we do get nowadays (when we get them) and why so many of them don't stick

I don't have figures but I believe many years ago there were quite good financial incentives to take on apprentices and over time these disappeared. Imported labour solved the problem of needing to train people, it did have a downward effect on wages but we seem to be in a reversal on the wages front.
I've no idea what the score is with taking on apprentices but I've certainly noticed that plumbers and electricians I work with have in the last few years been taking on apprentices, which is good to see.

 

[Notch7]

Imported labour solved the problem of needing to train people

thats utter cr@p

most of the last 50 years has seen a Tory govt in power -they have chosen to not train people

once again the EU is being used as a scapegoat for domestic political failure

 

[Notch7]

but we seem to be in a reversal on the wages front

No

wage inflation is being outstripped by cost of living inflation

it did have a downward effect on wages

No