Why are we punishing school children?

[Gerrydelasel]

Welcome to socialist education:everyone gets the same crap.
When teachers have no ability to discipline children, and zero input into what they're allowed to teach, you get bored teachers, teaching by wrote, leading to bored students acting up, leading to frustrated teachers abandoning the profession.

 

[Notch7]

You disagree with the main headline of the article, and subsequent comments, in the article that you quoted from?

Doesnt mean I said PGCE's should be scrapped.

You are talking utter rubbish as usual

Have you had too many donkey nuts

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Doesnt mean I said PGCE's should be scrapped.

You are talking utter rubbish as usual

Have you had too many donkey nuts

So you do not agree with the article that you quoted from?

 

[Notch7]

Welcome to socialist education:everyone gets the same crap.
When teachers have no ability to discipline children, and zero input into what they're allowed to teach, you get bored teachers, teaching by wrote, leading to bored students acting up, leading to frustrated teachers abandoning the profession.

I listened to in interview recently with a Headteacher of a school that produces some of the best results in the country and parents.

She says the success is due to the schools zero tolerance of bad behaviour. Rules are clearly defined and are adhered to rigidly. The result she says is an environment where children have clear boundaries and they are happier as a result.

The head teacher said that recruiting new staff is very difficult. She finds employing recently qualified teachers have to be re-taught, because they have been indoctrinated by PGCE 'child centred learning'.

 

[Notch7]

So you do not agree with the article that you quoted from?

Typical himaginn comment

 

[sodthisforfun]

Not the only trouble. Too many soft, dopey, pc women involved in education. Women are ok at primary, but secondary needs men with authority.

This post is hilarious, although am not sure you mean it to be! Luckily attitudes like that will die out with a generation.

What makes me laugh is that many kids, sorry, brats, are diagnosed with ODD and they are told they have it! They then use it as an excuse themselves when they you pull them up about their behaviour. ODD for those that don’t know is Oppositional Defiance Disorder. It’s self explanatory. Teenage kids don’t like being told what to do? Nothing new there! I have literally had kids say to me “I can’t help it, I’ve got ODD”. Have you ever heard anything so ridiculous?

Ahhh - so that's what I suffer from, as even at my old age I don't like being told what to do. I just thought it was called 'being a knob'! I guess you're not allowed to call the precious teenagers that? "-)

 

[JohnD]

a school that produces some of the best results in the country and parents.

I wonder what their typical class size is.

Does anybody think it is easy to maintain control of large groups of youngsters?

UK has among the worst teacher : pupil ratios in Europe.

I imagine that didn't apply to Buffoon's school.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38506305

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN02625

Perhaps if you have a government where the majority of cabinet minsters were expensively educated, it won't have much emotional involvement in the fate of the common people's families.

Just look how some of them "progressed"

 

[SirGalahad]

Well whoever introduced 'child centred' teaching is to blame.

Correct. The idea of child centred learning came from the 1960 and 1970 from the US. One of the most influential was Carl Rogers who said it was more important to teach skills than knowledge. So we have stupidly aped ideas from the US. Where the child becomes the product and the marketisation of education leading to the poor state of public education in the US and you can see the same signs over here. Its a stupid ideology that has taken hold.

The idea is that kids can learn themselves if you give them skills leads to them being dropped into a vacuum and some sink and some swim. By making the pupils in charge of their own learning you diminish the role of the teacher to teach. Which then leads to the idiotic idea in the US of kids parents given vouchers to use at schools. Like kids needs more choice.

They also know the generous welfare state here in the UK will look after them all their lives.
Dumb lwr.

Germany has more generous welfare so as usual your arguments are wrong.

Not the only trouble. Too many soft, dopey, pc women involved in education. Women are ok at primary, but secondary needs men with authority. Something you have proved works and comes as a shock to these pupils. You are probably the only person these kids have ever listened to in education, and the only one they will ever learn from. Can't teach without control.

What utter tripe. You use the same excuse for everything and are wrong again.

Correct the students spelling?

Yep. If a say a geography teacher points out errors in spelling which should be areas covered by the english teachers then rather than create more workload for themselves they let the child be.

Welcome to socialist education:everyone gets the same crap.
When teachers have no ability to discipline children, and zero input into what they're allowed to teach, you get bored teachers, teaching by wrote, leading to bored students acting up, leading to frustrated teachers abandoning the profession.

What utter rubbish yet again. Look at other systems and tell me whether its the pedagogy of teaching or the fact they are publicly funded which makes the difference.

 

[SirGalahad]

UK has among the worst teacher : pupil ratios in Europe.

https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=EAG_PERS_RATIO

UK is 20.7 the same as Indonesia.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

What utter rubbish yet again. Look at other systems and tell me whether its the pedagogy of teaching or the fact they are publicly funded which makes the difference.

What does the funding source have to do with it? What matters is who makes the rules; who decides what is taught.

 

[Notch7]

Just look how some of them "progressed"

Is that a young JohnD wearing shades at the back?

 

[vinty]

They should bring back the cane but only for consenting adults.

 

[SirGalahad]

What does the funding source have to do with it? What matters is who makes the rules; who decides what is taught.

You said it was due to socialism which is wrong. The problem is as touched by Notch and further expanded above about the pedagogy of teaching and the marketisation of education where competition somehow will improve standards.

 

[SirGalahad]

They should bring back the cane but only for consenting adults.

Well if we focus on teachers and not children and let teachers teach. Its the stupid idea that if something can be measured it can then be improved, this all comes from the management consultants employed by governments. So the focus of teaching becomes passing tests and not learning as you get paid on results. Which can then be summed up by Goodharts Law "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."

The reason we have these measures is that there are dumb right wingers saying the public service is wasteful so they need to create a measure to prove they are not and continual performance improvement just like those companies dancing to the tune of the city having to beat each quarters targets.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

You said it was due to socialism which is wrong. The problem is as touched by Notch and further expanded above about the pedagogy of teaching and the marketisation of education where competition somehow will improve standards.

Socialism isn't just about who pays, it's about centralised planning. The centralised planning part is the main bit that screws it up, because one size almost never fits all. A single national curriculum; centralised standardisation, does not fit all. Devolve more choice to teachers/local school administrators; it doesn't matter if the funding comes from the treasury or the parents directly.

There's nothing 'right wing' about expecting public spending to be scrutinised in an attempt to reduce wastage. The methods employed may turn out to be bad, but stupidity is not partisan.