Why are we punishing school children?

[sodthisforfun]

I would imagine that most teachers can't discipline their students because the government has tied their hands behind their backs, as they've done to the parents. And so the parents and the teachers fear the government, and the children fear nobody. And so God knows what sort of hell your average state school teacher has to endure every day. Add on top of this our political correctness culture and bureaucracy and they probably sit in fear of even sharing their angst with each other in fear of losing their jobs. Being paid a little bit more to suffer the exact same way is obviously not incentive enough, as the statistics demonstrate.

An old friend of mine is a teacher and often has no support from parents over their children being disruptive in class. On many an occasion she's been told to 'f-off' or worse by the parent when she's tried to sort the problem. It's little wonder some of these kids are little gits when that is the home life and she is left with no option than to chuck em out the room, lesson after lesson. She quit teaching for a while but went back to it recently, god knows why.

Bit different to my day when I feared my teachers, but not as much as I feared my parents being called by the school!

 

[Brigadier]

You're the one complaining about your 'lot' regarding this topic, not me.

QUOTE]
You need to work on your comprehension, my little pet

 

[Brigadier]

https://fullfact.org/education/teacher-retention-are-englands-teachers-leaving/

 

[Mottie]

I run my own small bespoke private training company teaching and assessing entry level motor mechanics. All accredited by the City & Guilds. I deal exclusively with school students with problems or those that have been excluded from mainstream education. Some of these are very badly behaved. I take no **** off of any of them, in fact I tell the organisations that buy my time that I have the final say over who attends and I categorically will not put up with any bad behaviour, attendance, punctuality or manners. If I see a kid that even spits on the pavement outside my workshop, he washes the pavement down or he is out. No ifs, no buts, wash it away or leave now. It’s a shock to some of them. I suppose it 'cures' 80% of those that try it on - in my workshop at least! They still try it on and get away with it elsewhere because they are allowed to and we are talking about the type of kids that puts a school into ‘lockdown' when they kick-off. The ones that won’t do as they're told are sent packing - some within the first 5 minutes on their first day if they refuse to put boots and overalls on. I’m fortunate enough to be in the position to call the shots but some of these badly behaved kids are worth £100k+ per year (yes, you read that correct, 100 thousand pounds PER YEAR to these special schools). They all have exclusive 1 to 1 tutoring and unfortunately the tutors know who the school will side with if there’s a dispute between a tutor and a student. In my day, if I played up at school I’d get the cane. If I got the cane I’d get further punishment from my Dad when I got home.

The trouble today with teaching is that the authority has been taken away from the teacher. Until they give that back, schoolchildren will suffer as teachers will leave or not join the profession. I feel sorry for teachers - I wouldn’t last till break time if I was in a mainstream school.

 

[Burnerman]

My philosophy is the same as yours, Mot.....(35 years in a secondary school in Newcastle west end) with the exception being that the kids that work their tickets stay with me.
Never shouted at the kids, won them over one way or another and was initially mentored by a great head of department whose technique I copied and passed it on to my own student teachers who were in my care.
Despite some of the kids being much harder and bigger than me, you can always out think them.
I'd do it all again.
John

 

[Brigadier]

The trouble today with teaching is that the authority has been taken away from the teacher.

Why are there good schools and bad schools then? Surely they should all be crap, if the above was the case?

 

[noseall]

Why are there good schools and bad schools then? Surely they should all be crap, if the above was the case?

Not all kids are third generation chavs.

 

[Brigadier]

Not all kids are third generation chavs.

That's got nothing to do with whether teachers have any authority or not though, has it?

 

[noseall]

That's got nothing to do with whether teachers have any authority or not though, has it?

No, but it does answer your question.

 

[Notch7]

My sister teaches in a secondary school. She has pupils that come to class but sit at the back playing on their phone, the best she can achieve is that they are quiet enough to enable those that do want learn, to concentrate.

The school has feral groups of children that roam around the school and dont bother going to classes. They sometimes walk into the classroom and become disruptive.

Quite a few children speak almost no English, so are hardly able to learn anything.

Teachers suffer a lot of stress due to the pressure of Ofsted, many teachers have left the profession because of Ofsted, some have suffered anxiety and depression. Some have committed suicide. No doubt those high up in Ofsted earn large salaries.

 

[Keithmac]

My two go to an all inclusive school, you can tell within 5 minutes if children have been brought up or dragged up..

To be fair the parents should take responsibility, children just follow their parents lead from what I've seen over the years.

Plenty out there second or third generation dole wallers with no intentions of getting a job, that mentality gets passed on.

 

[noseall]

To be fair the parents should take responsibility,

Correct.

 

[noseall]

Teachers suffer a lot of stress due to the pressure of Ofsted, many teachers have left the profession because of Ofsted, some have suffered anxiety and depression

The OFSTED visits are stressful but thankfully brief and it affects those higher earners - i.e. those whose jobs count on results. It is the year round stress that grinds regular teachers down coupled with the added work load and the trimming of staff.

 

[transam]

Some (many?) of these school leavers take there school attitude into the work place u have to go to school , but no one has to give them a job

 

[Mottie]

There’s no one answer to the problem unfortunately. In my opinion, it’s a lot to do with parenting, upbringing, culture, employment and a whole load of other things but generally speaking, and I do mean generally, you don’t get bad schools in good areas and vice versa although there are always exceptions to every rule. Another possible reason is that there's no hope of employment for a lot of kids. And when there’s no hope, they turn to gangs and crime to get what they think they deserve. I’m about the only remaining vocational option left in my local borough and only the schools that deal with kids that no other school can cope with have the funding to afford vocational training - not all kids are going to be academics. Where do kids nowdays learn to be painters, plasterers, bricklayers, mechanics, carpenters, plumbers or even labourers etc etc. They don't, is the answer. It's cheaper to import tradesmen and labourers from abroad nowdays rather than grow our own. There’s no funding in schools for the trades. They’re all 'Academies' nowdays anyway and for 'academies' read 'businesses' and their funding is geared to....academic results! Since the rise of academies, the number of mainstream students with the opportunity to learn a trade has dropped in my borough to....absolute zero. As I said, there’s no single solution and not one 'academic' can see that.