Would you mind if a client wouldn't pay till job complete?

[FreshAL]

Hi,

I'm having my flat rewired. Electrician has been... mixed. Really friendly guy, helpful with good suggestions, always on time and has put up with us messing him about with changing schedules.

However, I'm not totally happy with some of the work. He seems forgetful (or careless) i.e. putting sockets in the wrong place, wrong light fittings in the wrong room etc. The big cable laid between the fused unit and the cooker "broke" (it's been plastered over, nothing else) so we have to have trunking. Bedroom light doesn't work...

He's asked for part payment (i.e. for the work he's done so far). I'm ok with paying him for the materials he's used but I'm not happy to pay labour till the whole job is completely finished.

Is this reasonable? Would the electricians on here accept that offer?

thanks

 

[galliano2001]

FreshAL....firstly im not a sparky, just a customer. If you had a new install done and the cable to your cooker has 'broken' whilst he is still on site, are you seriosuly saying he has now run surface conduit rather than replace the cable and make good?

 

[FreshAL]

the cable to your cooker has 'broken' whilst he is still on site, are you seriosuly saying he has now run surface conduit rather than replace the cable and make good?

Yup. It's all plastered over and kitchen units fitted now.

 

[comms]

Well I always on larger jobs such as re-wires & extensions, stipulate in the quotation/contract that a stage payment (normaly half the total) will be required after completion of first fix. This is done to cover cost of materials & incase customer starts playing silly buggers.

When the first fix is complete I walk round with customer to ensure all is ok, they & I sign a receipt (one for me one for customer) that states all is well so far & ammount paid to date.

and has put up with us messing him about with changing schedules.

You are lucky, I know of some sparks that will have added a small FAF fee, if your changing schedule has delayed work.

putting sockets in the wrong place

Ask him why, there may be a valid reason.
But again before I even start a job, it's a walk round with the customer with a bit of chalk to mark positions of accessories on the walls.

The big cable laid between the fused unit and the cooker "broke" (it's been plastered over, nothing else) so we have to have trunking.

Not satisfactory. Ask how/why it broke & if it's new cable installed by him & you've paid for it he should have sorted the problem at his expence (and people say I'm mad for installing a short length of galv conduit between ccu & outlets, bet he wishes he had now).

Bedroom light doesn't work

Chuck the fault back at him, it may be something innocent such as blown lamp you never know.

Be amicable with the bloke, dont threaten to with hold money that will just get his back up, that happens you'll end up with a crap job & the potential for a log in the loft

 

[Chri5]

I always ask (and get):-

materials on delivery
35% at 50% completion
35% at 75% completion
30% on completion and cleared funds before the cert / paperwork is issued.

Unfortunately trust is an issue and some clients are less than moral when it comes to money.

I also carry variation orders, so any changes get written in and signed for before the change is done.

Regarding positions, I make up a visio drawing of the works (when major) and the client signs these and we both have a copy- just to make sure we're singing from the same song book, or apples for apples.

Why do you feel that you should withhold 100% of the work labour cost, when even with snagging (if accepted) and remedials that will only account for a small portion of the overall work ALREADY done ?

If you did that to me I wouldn't be happy and I'd down tools until you chose a more reasonable and agreeable stance on the matter.

My other action might include removal of my fittings, wire, CU and generally a full removal of all my work, since you don't seem keen to pay for it.

 

[FreshAL]

OK, thanks for responses guys.

Good to see it from your side.

Will come to an agreement.

Cheers

 

[electronicsuk]

Why do you feel that you should withhold 100% of the work labour cost, when even with snagging (if accepted) and remedials that will only account for a small portion of the overall work ALREADY done ?

To me, at least, withholding full payment doesn't seem too unreasonable given the circumstances. The problem is that the faults have called into question the quality of workmanship, and I wouldn't want to be parting with any money until I could confirm the work carried out so far has been done correctly.

Holding back payment for work partially completed, but completed to a good standard, is an entirely different matter.

 

[NewOrder]

I would check he belongs to all the bodies he claims he belongs to and if it turns out he told a lie you are probably legally entiteld to witheld all the money as he was trying to comit fraud.

However things go wrong, I don't want fix computer problems first time but I always explain if you have problems after then it will be fixed free of charge or if it did turn out to be a bigger job I would knock of what they have already paid me to the final sum, that way I still get my money and it dosn't cost the client money the fact I didn't fix it first time round.

 

[mattylad]

Personally I dont want to employ someone who cannot do the full job without payment until it has been completed. The more they are owed the more likely they are to finish the job to my satisfaction.

 

[Cremeegg]

Most people will want things in writing - so what was agreed in your case?

Personally I set out my terms and conditions very clearly in writing for all jobs and get customers to sign them. Depending on the job depends on what I want - changing a shower tomorrow - couple of hundred quid - a repeat customer - so money on completion. I've bought the shower in advance at my cost because I know and trust the customer. Rewire next week - new customer - who I like and trust but have absolutely no basis to so we agreed all materials money up front; labour on completion. That way if it all goes pear shaped at least I haven't lost out on materials.

Most electricians can smell a dodgy customer miles off and will price and get paperwork sorted accordingly. Most people I know will mark up a job that has any bad vibes to it - if they take the job at all. Personally I always add a sum if the house is dirty smelly untidy or in anyway awkward.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

30% on completion and cleared funds before the cert / paperwork is issued.

In other words you expect to be completely paid for the job before you've completely finished it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

General advice re changes etc, and this protects both parties, and should be adhered to by both parties:

A definitive nailed-down spec, documented and agreed and formally part of the contract. An allowance for contingency is a BGI.

Any changes are separately negotiated, documented and formalised, and may affect price or schedule or both.

Maybe installing a shower isn't much of a "project", and doesn't need much of a formal specification, but any project manager will tell you that change control is where you make your profit. And lack of change control is where you make your loss.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Why do you feel that you should withhold 100% of the work labour cost, when even with snagging (if accepted) and remedials that will only account for a small portion of the overall work ALREADY done ?

To me, at least, withholding full payment doesn't seem too unreasonable given the circumstances. The problem is that the faults have called into question the quality of workmanship, and I wouldn't want to be parting with any money until I could confirm the work carried out so far has been done correctly.

And another problem is that with the wall plastered and the kitchen units fixed, replacing that cable will be a lot of work and expense for the electrician. If the OP only withholds a small portion of the labour cost then the electrician will probably cut his losses and just walk. In the his shoes I'd try and work out what it would cost the electrician to put it right and withhold at least twice that.

 

[sm1thson]

The big cable laid between the fused unit and the cooker "broke" (it's been plastered over, nothing else) so we have to have trunking. Bedroom light doesn't work...

Yup. It's all plastered over and kitchen units fitted now.

(new) cables generally dont just break, only at the connections. I expect someone broke it, probably the fitting of the kitchen units is to blame. if that is the case then I would probably stick with the trunking. However the electrician should know where the cable is and if this is likely, there shouldnt really be an element of mystery.

 

[Chri5]

30% on completion and cleared funds before the cert / paperwork is issued.

In other words you expect to be completely paid for the job before you've completely finished it.

Yes and no.

The job would be completed aside from the issue of cert, schedule, CAD final floor plan.

London is unfortunately full of morally corrupt people, the only time I was knocked was by a Senior partner for a law firm who decided to discount my invoice by £1200. Reason?

They redesigned the kitchen, moved doors and windows after I'd 1st fixed 12 sockets on a ring, hob, boiler and cooker circuits. The builder was knocked for £12k

Unfortunately that experience has led me to work to a fairly standard format (I'm not the only one that holds back certs etc) of witholding EIC until final payment made.

What does BGI stand for