Where has he gone?

[EFLImpudence]

A very big difference. One is an inability to change because of a disease/condition. The other is a conscious decision not to change on the part of someone who is quite capable of changing.

Ok. I presume there is a way of determining which it is but obviously we cannot judge from here.

To suggest that someone's behaviour is due to a 'psychological condition' implies that we should be sympathetic and not blame them or be critical of that ('involuntary') behaviour. If their behaviour is something they could easily change, but choose not to, then we have every right to blame and criticise, if we do not approve of that behaviour.

Well, I suppose that is true but if they choose not to then they can't (choose not to), can they?

Is there a difference (and is it quantifiable) between someone with tourette's and someone who just shouts "f**k" every now and then?

I suppose it's like when serial killers are judged not to be insane - but is the judgement correct?

 

[Brigade77]

I can't find a reference anywhere (Google) but I'm sure I read it somewhere -

Wasn't there a genius (a real one) who was, what was thought to be, extremely rude and unhelpful to other people but it was just because things were so blatantly obvious to him that he just could not comprehend that other people could not see it as well?

I know a chap like that, say to him "good morning" & he'll snap back "no it isn't". This is amongst many of his very peculiarities. (he is the spitting image of Catweazle).

It's difficult to get beyond this behaviour, but if you do, he is probably the single most interesting person you could ever wish to meet.

I would never categorise him in his presence, but I would estimate his IQ in the 140's . . .

 

[Brigade77]

Can anyone please define to me exactly what 'normal' is ?

 

[John D v2.0]

Today we've journeyed through psychology, morality, philosophy and now the balance between society and the individual (I.e. left or right on the political spectrum.)
Heavy stuff, not bad for electric UK

 

[EFLImpudence]

Can anyone please define to me exactly what 'normal' is ?

Only what's in the dictionary, but today it's nothing to be proud of.

 

[Brigade77]

Today we've journeyed through psychology, morality, philosophy and now the balance between society and the individual (I.e. left or right on the political spectrum.)
Heavy stuff, not bad for electric UK

By far the best example of an attempt to sum up a debate on what are very subjective & immensely complex subjects I have ever heard, is the simple statement of . . . :-

"I am Spartacus".

 

[Robin0577]

I can't find a reference anywhere (Google) but I'm sure I read it somewhere -

Wasn't there a genius (a real one) who was, what was thought to be, extremely rude and unhelpful to other people but it was just because things were so blatantly obvious to him that he just could not comprehend that other people could not see it as well?

I'm sure there have been several such people. Many accounts suggest that Alan Turing was one of them.

 

[Doggit]

It is alright to discriminate against psychological problems but not physical ones

Can anyone please define to me exactly what 'normal' is

Normal is simply the way that the majority of any group act at a particular moment in time. What is normal for our children, certainly wasn't normal when we were young, so we look at them as being odd, then hopefully come to terms with their strange behaviour. But when someone has aspergers, they appear normal, but because they perceive the world differently, can't act in a normal manner.

I have Aspergers, and believe me, it isn't easy when you see something that seems so obvious, but you can't get others to see what you can. An autistic person will never change, and their strange actions are obvious; but because those with aspergers appear normal, we get all sorts of sh1t thrown at us, simply because we don't have a warning sign written on our foreheads. I kept getting fired from jobs when I first started work because I didn't understand the concept of couching words in the way others wanted to hear them, so my blunt and straightforward manner wasn't appreciated. The world is very straightforward to those who have aspergers, and things are always black and white, but whilst BAS may well have had aspergers/been autistic, he always seemed cantankerous.

We walk our own path, and it's often a lonely, but it's always an interesting, albeit a difficult one

 

[JohnW2]

No. If they do not have the ability to behave normally (even if they want to) - how can they be choosing not to exercise that ability? They do not have that ability.

Exactly - that's why I wrote (and you quoted): "[they do not have that ability in the first place, so can't choose not to exercise it]".

Although we seem to be getting a bit confused by the words, it seems that we are, again, agreeing.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Ok. I presume there is a way of determining which it is but obviously we cannot judge from here.

Of course not. I am merely offering my personal opinion/judgement, based on both public and private interactions with him, that he probably does have the ability to change, but chooses not to.

Well, I suppose that is true but if they choose not to then they can't (choose not to), can they?

I'm not quite sure what you're saying but, since we actually seem to agree, I suspect it's another confusion resulting from the (my) words!

Is there a difference (and is it quantifiable) between someone with tourette's and someone who just shouts "f**k" every now and then?

As I wrote earlier, it is difficult (impossible) to define borderlines in these situations. You could just as easily ask the same thing about physical things - the diagnosis of things like diabetes, hypertension, obesity etc. are based on at least partially arbitrary borderlines in things (blood sugar, blood presser, weight/BMI in thsoe cases) which show fairly wide variation throughout the population, including those regarded as 'normal'/not-diseased.

I suppose it's like when serial killers are judged not to be insane - but is the judgement correct?

Exactly, these things are all judg(e)ments [**]. At the extremes, there's clearly a difference between someone who commits repeated murders in order, say, to further their criminal 'career' (e.g. 'disposing of competitors'!) and another who commits repeated murders because 'voices are telling them to' and who do not understand that killing is wrong. However, somewhere between those extremes is a big grey area - and neither individuals nor Courts are ever going to be in complete agreement about that.

[** since words seem to be a topic close to your heart, this is an interesting. In terms of everyday English, "judgement" has an 'e' in the middle - but I understand that Court "judgments" do not! It's therefore not absolutely clear as to what spelling you should have used ]

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Oooh, didn't know that.

Will look into it.

One word I always think should not have an 'e' but does is mileage.

 

[JohnW2]

Normal is simply the way that the majority of any group act at a particular moment in time.

Whilst I agree with everything else you say, and certainly have sympathy with what you are having to cope with, I don't think that 'normality' is quite as simple as you suggest. For a start, what is 'normal' behaviour within a group (i.e. the way in which the majority of members of that group act) is not necessarily in any way 'normal' (or necessarily acceptable) in terms of the wider population.

... just think of 'the group' being a group of Mafia bosses

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Oooh, didn't know that. Will look into it.

Enjoy!

One word I always think should not have an 'e' but does is mileage.

I'm not so sure about the 'should not' - would not "milage" be pronounced "mill-aj" or "mill-age"? FWIW, it also 'looks' very wrong to me!

Kind Regards, John

 

[DaveHerns]

I hope he has found something useful and positive to do with the time he spent on this forum . There might be a big void in his life. I don't wish him ill ,I just wish he'd learn some people skills .

 

[JohnW2]

I hope he has found something useful and positive to do with the time he spent on this forum . There might be a big void in his life. I don't wish him ill ,I just wish he'd learn some people skills .

That's also a major concern of mine. My hope would be that he's found some alternative place to 'perform', since his time spent in relation to this forum must have represented a substantial and important part of his life. I've had a bit of a 'look around'', but have not yet found any evidence of him in other forums/fora (and I doubt that he could disguise his 'style' very effectively!).

Kind Regards, John