Big Tone said:
And I'm still waiing for an answer to mine.
and what post is this you would like me to answer Spacecat?
and what post is this you would like me to answer Spacecat?
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Sorry Tone but I'm more on ThatBlokes side of the debate.
The religion itself - and I'm speaking on behalf of the Christian Bible and what I know of Judaism through the old testament of the bible - is not the issue.
One of Jesus' most famous saying was "You must love your neighbour as yourself", and when asked "Who is my neighbour?" gave the parable of the good Samaritan (and bear in mind that back then the Jews and Samaritans loathed each other, so the Samaritan helping the Jew is clearly meant to illustrate that your neighbour isn't just someone who is the same race,creed or nationality as you.)
It's not religion that is the problem.
Its the fact that religion can be used by unscrupulous people to gain money, power and indeed control.
And the pope has his own country.
BTW, there was a Christian backlash when the Life of Brian was released, IIRC it was banned for many years. Personally I find it absolutely hilarious and can't see where the charges of blasphemy apply
And the bible says the earth is round : Isaiah 40:22, the original Hebrew word refers to a sphere or a ball.
B
Big Tone
So what you are saying is we should all respect any doctrine based on cruelty or fear of death? That makes you and millions of others a problem, not the solution.
B
Big Tone
No problem and I'm not falling out with ThatBloke; we're just having a debate without the usual slagging match and personal vilifications.
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T
thatbloke
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T
thatbloke
No problem and I'm not falling out with ThatBloke; we're just having a debate without the usual slagging match and personal vilifications.
Dont worry Tone , I dont take it to heart.
B
Big Tone
I know and have worked with, still work with, very many Muslim people. I love them as indeed I can say I love all good people with a kind heart regardless of where they come from. It is a privilege to work with them and have many as my friend. I may not understand why they have to pray several times a day, I may even think it’s silly, but that is their choice. It doesn’t mean I don’t respect them, because if it’s what they want to do and it’s doing no-one any harm then great! I absolutely agree with ThatBloke on this.
I see more pain, suffering and despair than most. (Nuff said ). This life, this world, is a cruel and violent place. So anyone who has found a way of getting through it using their ‘brand’ of faith is absolutely fine by me and I do not mock them for it, just like I enjoyed The life of Brian but I wouldn’t dream of mocking a Christian to his or her face. I wouldn’t, that is, until they or anyone else starts to push their ideals on to me.
I am interested in this thread because I want some of the myths dispelled and clarity over Sharia law and the persecution of women and other matters.
I see more pain, suffering and despair than most. (Nuff said
). This life, this world, is a cruel and violent place. So anyone who has found a way of getting through it using their ‘brand’ of faith is absolutely fine by me and I do not mock them for it, just like I enjoyed The life of Brian but I wouldn’t dream of mocking a Christian to his or her face. I wouldn’t, that is, until they or anyone else starts to push their ideals on to me. I am interested in this thread because I want some of the myths dispelled and clarity over Sharia law and the persecution of women and other matters.
Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”
B
Big Tone
I agree with you but with the point me and ThatBloke have mentioned. I have seen people with terminal illness more times than I care to remember. People with a faith, a genuine belief which they hold dear, often handle their fate well.
I can’t go into too much detail but a young girl I know through work has recently lost her family in a fire and she is burnt in a way I don’t want to go into detail about. As an atheist, if I was her god-father I may well tell her there is a heaven and her family are well and that she will meet them one day. (It’s actually upsetting me as I write)
I mention it because how do you tell a child there is nothing? I don’t think I could in some circumstances and perhaps the origin of all religions started in order to give hope where there is none. I’d like to think so...
IronNaz said:
It's the third one down, way back here:
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=284490&start=75
PS: Just in case there's any confusion, please note that there are two extraterrestrial felines in this thread.
Spacecat
Heres a question for you, you claim religion is nonsense and we are here by mere chance and coincidence?
OK fair enough.
So tell me about cars. Did the metal the car is made out from extract itself from rocks, mix itself and form alloys?
Did the glass make itself from sand?
Did the windscreen just happen to be at the front of the car for the sake of it? Or was it put there for a specific purpose, i.e. to help you see where your going.
What about the headlights, why are they at the front and not at the top of the car?
What about the electrics, did they just happen to install themselves, the cables, the circuits etc? Or were they designed, and put where they are for a reason and for a particular purpose, i.e to carry electricity throughout the car to power different mechanisms (electric windows, lighting, heating etc)?
OK, i suspect you will say:-
Spacecat: "IronNaz are you stupid, of course the car did not create itself, it was designed to be the way it is, the materials were made, the components were placed on the car in certain areas fora reason, its designed to be the way it is, if you think this car created itself Mr Naz, your crazy"!!
Yet Spacecat, you say the human body, which is far more complex then ANY car, created itself through chance coincidence and evolution?
And then you say we people of religion are crazy??!!
Ask yourself, why are the eyes at the front of our heads and not at the back, why do our ears have lobes to catch the sound and channel into into our ear, why to we have fingers at the end of our arms to help us grip things and not on our elbows? Why do we have teeth in our mouth? to help us chew. Why do we have a bum hole? To help us excrete waste from the body. Why do we have strong sexual urges and feel intense feelings of pleasure when we have sex? To encourage us to have sex and therefore recreate life.
The human body is the perfect design, yet you say it created itself?!
Heres a question for you, you claim religion is nonsense and we are here by mere chance and coincidence?
OK fair enough.
So tell me about cars. Did the metal the car is made out from extract itself from rocks, mix itself and form alloys?
Did the glass make itself from sand?
Did the windscreen just happen to be at the front of the car for the sake of it? Or was it put there for a specific purpose, i.e. to help you see where your going.
What about the headlights, why are they at the front and not at the top of the car?
What about the electrics, did they just happen to install themselves, the cables, the circuits etc? Or were they designed, and put where they are for a reason and for a particular purpose, i.e to carry electricity throughout the car to power different mechanisms (electric windows, lighting, heating etc)?
OK, i suspect you will say:-
Spacecat: "IronNaz are you stupid, of course the car did not create itself, it was designed to be the way it is, the materials were made, the components were placed on the car in certain areas fora reason, its designed to be the way it is, if you think this car created itself Mr Naz, your crazy"!!
Yet Spacecat, you say the human body, which is far more complex then ANY car, created itself through chance coincidence and evolution?
And then you say we people of religion are crazy??!!
Ask yourself, why are the eyes at the front of our heads and not at the back, why do our ears have lobes to catch the sound and channel into into our ear, why to we have fingers at the end of our arms to help us grip things and not on our elbows? Why do we have teeth in our mouth? to help us chew. Why do we have a bum hole? To help us excrete waste from the body. Why do we have strong sexual urges and feel intense feelings of pleasure when we have sex? To encourage us to have sex and therefore recreate life.
The human body is the perfect design, yet you say it created itself?!
malcolmX said:
You mean like free speech, free love and free radio.
Seriously though, it's not difficult to work out what scares the sh*t out of the so-called islamists. And it's not just the kids; it's women of all ages.
IronNaz, please don't take this as an attack on your religion but --
How will you react if, when your kids reach 18, they demand the right to share their beds with whosoever they choose? (That's an honest question from one with no religion at all and who didn't pay much attention in RI classes.
How would i react? I would be very upset if they chose this life, but what can i do? I will raise my children as Muslims and instill strong Islamic/religious values into them, one of which is you dont have sex before marriage but you wait until you meet the right person, settle down and marry.
Morality to me is a big thing. the moral codes of Islam and all religions, i feel lead to a happier, more peaceful, more tranquille society.
But hey i'm just a mad raving looney Islamic nutter so ignore what i say.
Where?
B
Big Tone
No such thing as perfect; just fit or unfit for purpose.
To use your own analogy, you are the car claiming to know humans created it.
I always find it incredibly arrogant when someone claims to know there is a god when the truth is I don’t know and neither do you my friend.
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