alarm call for all

[mdf290]

"Physically damage AP hardware—An attacker using a high-output transmitter with directional high gain antenna 30 yards away from an access point can pulse enough RF power to damage electronics in the access point putting it being permanently out of service. Such High Energy RF (HERF) guns are effective and are inexpensive to build."

Nobody actually said it was not possible to Jam a wireless alarm.
You are now pointing towards using specialized equipment to defeat a budget alarm. That in itself proves they are adequate against opportunist thieves as the need to buy special equipment and risk being arrested kind of puts the whole show into another area. The same are where thieves dont worry about alarms because they attack the homes while the occupants are at home.

Now you are talking about using sledgehammers to crack eggs.

When the alarm was installed and purchased with a minimal risk expected and the risk assessment by the purchaser decided against a £1000 alarm or more why talk about specialist techniques and equipment.

People with those skills and liberty risking attitudes will be in North Leeds for big pickings not risking jailtime for a second hand iphone and some fake Armani Jeans.

I really dont understand what is so big and clever about claiming you can defeat a budget alarm?

There are people using this forum for advice to install DIY alarms but all they are met by instead of help is egotistical geeks who brag about their enormous powers and abilities to defeat DIY alarms.... whoop de dooo.

tell me how you would break into the Lloyds TSB in Leeds City Centre and I might be impressed but what you are doing on here.....

even I could buy a gadget and press a button with F'all knowledge.

I personally though could not see the point or that it was anything worth mentioning without totally embarrassing myself.

 

[mdf290]

Directed at JohnD

Top 2 lines from his website.


"NEW HOMES - PARK HOMES - LANDLORDS - EMPTY PROPERTIES - WORKSHOPS - REPLACE OLD ALARMS - CARAVANS - UNITS AND MORE"

....and, NO, I'm NOT going to give you his address for £5 or any other amount. Suffice to say that I do know where '290 comes from.

I even know his mobile number, and I'm not going to give you that either.

Did you notice " ", that is a quote, happy with that?

ps

Ask him about his bird tables, they are quite good.

erm... John D is asking for proof of someone being burgled because of a jammed alarm... what has the above got to do with that?

Saddo

 

[Europlex]

I know, it is just as stupid as everything he has written, thought I'd join in.

... and I do like the bird tables.

 

[mdf290]

I know, it is just as stupid as everything he has written, thought I'd join in.

... and I do like the bird tables.

Why thank you . . Had an email from a large national Bird supplies company asking me to supply.. . . I could soon be far too busy to come here... I know you would miss me

 

[bernardgreen]

[removed by mods]

Note that jammer is only operated for long enough to block the signal from the sensor which will be too short to trip the jamming detection.

I do not know what frequency is used by the system shown but as jammers for both 433 and 868 are easy to buy this non UK demonstration is just as applicable to UK systems.

 

[dpt]

"Physically damage AP hardware—An attacker using a high-output transmitter with directional high gain antenna 30 yards away from an access point can pulse enough RF power to damage electronics in the access point putting it being permanently out of service. Such High Energy RF (HERF) guns are effective and are inexpensive to build."

Nobody actually said it was not possible to Jam a wireless alarm.
You are now pointing towards using specialized equipment to defeat a budget alarm. That in itself proves they are adequate against opportunist thieves as the need to buy special equipment and risk being arrested kind of puts the whole show into another area. The same are where thieves dont worry about alarms because they attack the homes while the occupants are at home.

Now you are talking about using sledgehammers to crack eggs.

When the alarm was installed and purchased with a minimal risk expected and the risk assessment by the purchaser decided against a £1000 alarm or more why talk about specialist techniques and equipment.

People with those skills and liberty risking attitudes will be in North Leeds for big pickings not risking jailtime for a second hand iphone and some fake Armani Jeans.

I really dont understand what is so big and clever about claiming you can defeat a budget alarm?

There are people using this forum for advice to install DIY alarms but all they are met by instead of help is egotistical geeks who brag about their enormous powers and abilities to defeat DIY alarms.... whoop de dooo.

tell me how you would break into the Lloyds TSB in Leeds City Centre and I might be impressed but what you are doing on here.....

even I could buy a gadget and press a button with F'all knowledge.

I personally though could not see the point or that it was anything worth mentioning without totally embarrassing myself.

MDF I was showing you all about RF and it's ability to even damage equipment. And no, it's not specialist equipment of would it cost very much to throw one together.

You don't seem to even understand the basics of wireless alarm systems or you wouldn't be trying to defend them.

Jam detection is something you don't seem to understand very much. All sensors communicate with the main unit (sending nice little bits of information) in the case of a door sensor it will send a response when the door is opened and if the alarm is armed it will sound off. Jam detection works by the unit sending a query to the sensor (hello door censor, you ok?) and if the sensor is jammed, well you know the rest. What you don't seem to realise is the unit sends a query every 45 seconds. All you need to do is jam the door sensor for the split second it takes for the sensor to report an open door. Even when the door closes and reports a closed door the unit won't set off, a closed door is a closed door.

Do you want more? I'm sure you will

 

[JohnD]

The offer is still open...

OK, I love truth and evidence, so I've got another £5 here for the first person to provide good evidence. It'll be worth it.

Have you ever known someone use such a device to help them burgle an ordinary domestic house?

Have you evidence of a UK burglar being charged for "going equipped" with such a device?

This offer expires 30th May.

 

[bernardgreen]

Jam detection works by the unit sending a query to the sensor (hello door censor, you ok?) and if the sensor is jammed, well you know the rest.

That is true for better quality systems that employ two way communications. The lower end OWLE systems cannot ask the sensors for their status, the sensors cannot receive.

Jamming detection in OWLE systems is no more than if the channel is occupied above the receiver's threshold for more than a set period of time then jamming is assumed.

The technical help desk of one manufacturer has confirmed that sensors do NOT report status on a regular basis but only transmit when there is a change of status. This was known from investigation of a sensor's activity. Some door sensors only report the door opening and do not report on it closing.

 

[bernardgreen]

You are now pointing towards using specialized equipment to defeat a budget alarm.

Jammers can be bought for as little as £25 from China.

There are people using this forum for advice to install DIY alarms

Your help is to try and convince them that one brand of OWLE wireless alarm system will work without problems and provide them with the security they are looking for.

but all they are met by instead of help is egotistical geeks who brag about their enormous powers and abilities to defeat DIY alarms.... whoop de dooo.

That is your opinion of experienced professionals who work not in alarm systems but in the use of the type of radio communications that wireless alarms use.

You do not have the necessary knowledge of radio communications and probably do not have the basic test equipment to assess how wireless alarm systems work. You appear to lack knowledge on how the alarms you install work. The knowledge you lack is vital in assessing how the systems will operate in the presence of other legal and compliant equipment.

Statements you have made ( both as mdf, yaleguy etc ) have been shown to be wrong by analysis of a sensor's transmissions and then confirmed verbally by staff on the manufacturer's technical help desk as being factually in-accurate.

I agree that an OWLE wireless alarm system will work when there is no other activity on the radio channel. Unfortunately for owners of OWLE wireless alarms there is no way to ensure the channel remains free of activity from other users and therefor there is no guarantee that a system that works when installed and tested will continue to provide security.

 

[mdf290]

Why the crusade? Other than just because you can? Jammers maybe available but anyone using them is breaking the law. Your remarks about jammers and your wholly innacurate suggestion that fitting an alarm without telling your insurers will void your home insurance will only serve to discourage people from having an alarm installed which is a far greater risk.
West Yorkshire Police don't seem to be too worried they have been passing burglary victims on to an organisation in Leeds that fits Yale alarms at inflated prices for years. The residents of Middleton don't seem too worried either as they have been having them installed for the last few years and are still having them installed. They have a neighbourhood facebook group which would soon report if someone had been burgled via jamming.

 

[alumni]

Why the crusade? Other than just because you can? Jammers maybe available but anyone using them is breaking the law. Your remarks about jammers and your wholly innacurate suggestion that fitting an alarm without telling your insurers will void your home insurance will only serve to discourage people from having an alarm installed which is a far greater risk.
West Yorkshire Police don't seem to be too worried they have been passing burglary victims on to an organisation in Leeds that fits Yale alarms at inflated prices for years. The residents of Middleton don't seem too worried either as they have been having them installed for the last few years and are still having them installed. They have a neighbourhood facebook group which would soon report if someone had been burgled via jamming.

And the relevance of all that Puff?

Interesting comment regarding use of a jammer breaking the law.
Isn't burglary breaking the law too?

 

[tataylor1]

I think he's saying that while possible it isn't the main concern for someone fitting a low cost diy alarm, and reiterating the technical data - although accurate - is serving more to confuse than assist people looking for a box that goes dingaling.

im grateful for all the posts so far mind, i've been gleaning the best bits.

 

[dpt]

Why the crusade? Other than just because you can? Jammers maybe available but anyone using them is breaking the law. Your remarks about jammers and your wholly innacurate suggestion that fitting an alarm without telling your insurers will void your home insurance will only serve to discourage people from having an alarm installed which is a far greater risk.
West Yorkshire Police don't seem to be too worried they have been passing burglary victims on to an organisation in Leeds that fits Yale alarms at inflated prices for years. The residents of Middleton don't seem too worried either as they have been having them installed for the last few years and are still having them installed. They have a neighbourhood facebook group which would soon report if someone had been burgled via jamming.

Have you been to Middleton? I can tell you that there is an amateur friend of mine living up the hill. Most houses are boarded up and it's a virtual no go area for the law. I can honestly say I have not seen a yale alarm.

The jammer comment is a joke right?

 

[mdf290]

Why the crusade? Other than just because you can? Jammers maybe available but anyone using them is breaking the law. Your remarks about jammers and your wholly innacurate suggestion that fitting an alarm without telling your insurers will void your home insurance will only serve to discourage people from having an alarm installed which is a far greater risk.
West Yorkshire Police don't seem to be too worried they have been passing burglary victims on to an organisation in Leeds that fits Yale alarms at inflated prices for years. The residents of Middleton don't seem too worried either as they have been having them installed for the last few years and are still having them installed. They have a neighbourhood facebook group which would soon report if someone had been burgled via jamming.

Have you been to Middleton? I can tell you that there is an amateur friend of mine living up the hill. Most houses are boarded up and it's a virtual no go area for the law. I can honestly say I have not seen a yale alarm.

The jammer comment is a joke right?

So ignorant. Have a wander around the New Forest Estate a huuuge newbuild estate and then report back how many yale alarms you see.

You are the Joke Dpt...

You claim to be concerned for peoples safety and then can't wait indeed trip over yourself with links to jamming devices and detailed instructions on how to use them.

You just don't get what a plonker you are do you?

 

[JohnD]

The offer is still open...

OK, I love truth and evidence, so I've got another £5 here for the first person to provide good evidence. It'll be worth it.

Have you ever known someone use such a device to help them burgle an ordinary domestic house?

Have you evidence of a UK burglar being charged for "going equipped" with such a device?

This offer expires 30th May.