No You Don't just die and thats it.......

Mike, the various gods are not the same thing. Different religions teach different belief systems. Few are compatible and many are completely different and opposite. I understand why you sit on the fence (your false positive) because it avoids the difficult questions. Your bible tells you one thing - the other bibles tell other stories that don't match. proof positive that the stories are just imaginary.

I agree, as per my above post, most have set their own rules and conditions, and that is why you have subtle intolerable differences amongst the same religion because of this we have wars between Sunnis and Shias, between Catholics and Protestants, and fortunately in Hinduism there so many different ways to worship that same God through minor gods, and we don't have that problem within Hinduism ! Sikhs seem to have sorted it out better as their religion prohibits intolerance towards other religions and accepts them as its own, most Sikhs value Islam and Hinduism and Christianity.

Taking sikhs for example, they have absorbed all the good things from Islam, they reject halal and animal sacrifice, and from Hinduism they have taken the good examples and rejected the idol worshipping, and Christianity is the closest to Sikhism, with no divisions in Sikh faith, apart from the way many would dress up wearing turbans and keeping beards and many chose not to use the strict dress code under the free will. But on the whole both are accepted into the mainstream Sikhism, and as in any religion Sikhs are not free from fundamentalism.
 
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So you don't actually believe in god. What you believe is that the universe was spontaneously created from energy which you are calling god. That's fine. You call it god and I'll call it the big bang. I can live peacefully with that.
 
Yes but who lit the blue touch paper and stood back? :confused:
 
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So you don't actually believe in god. What you believe is that the universe was spontaneously created from energy which you are calling god. That's fine. You call it god and I'll call it the big bang. I can live peacefully with that.

No, try not to distort my views, I said all along that God is some kind of Supreme and Master source of all Energies, so indeed i believe that it is God that holds the key to the beginning of the universe, God and Supreme energy are the two sides of the same coin, both interdependent.
Like for example, if you take an atom, it has protons and electrons, and neutrons amongst other things like Bosons, if you go deeper into them, which gives that atom some of the other properties that we cannot see, such as mass, inertia, gravity and other features different atoms and materials possess, we get atomic energy from uranium atoms and not from Copper atoms, same way God energy is controllable by a thought of God, and the two are interdependent, and they gave birth to all other energies from within master energy, so God energy the master source is different to ordinary energy, like uranium yields atomic energy, so it is different to electricity, electricity is a different source of energy, but in the end it is from that same master source, same as uranium, some materials are attractive to magnetism and others are not,

So God/Energy is much different to ordinary energy that we commonly use on earth for our needs. We have a long way to find intricate details of all matter and Energy and only then there may be a distinct possibility that God may be revealed in his or its true form.

Remember I thought of this completely independently without any interference from any religions, it was only after that i discovered what various religions say about God. My own independent thoughts or views were not incompatible, in fact it fits perfectly well with most religions and science of Einstein.

I believe that the Universe was not created spontaneously, from this Energy, but it was created when the go ahead given by the personality side of the supreme energy. It is this Supreme energy which is also capable of thinking hence it is not only Almighty but also capable of making decisions and then act accordingly. hence the personality part of it transformed some of its Supreme energy into a creation.

I am sure one day science will unfold God, and then we could finally rest this matter.

However, as in line with my own principles of free will and choice, you are perfectly entitled to your views and your thinking and I respect that, my belief whether wrong or right, I will not say that your thoughts carry any less weight.

until it is proven solid, which we know we cannot do that as yet, we remain at equilibrium.
 
I lost what vestige of respect I had for religions when I realised how much it has, and continues, to thwart science.

Galileo, for one, was persecuted for his heathen words saying that we have a sun and our Earth revolves around it. He was tried and the church found him "gravely suspect of heresy," sentencing him to indefinite imprisonment. This was subsequently commuted to house arrest, under which he remained for the rest of his life. (How pathetic of those fools!).

The disgusting thing about all religions, (one of so many things), is not just their ignorance but that they haven’t even the decency to admit they are wrong. Well, eventually they had to acquiesce because they realised just how stupid they were, but it wasn’t until 1981 that the Roman Catholic Church officially forgive Galileo if you can believe that! :eek: A true lion led by ignorant and primitive religious sheep, just like happens today.

Like the saying goes, all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Here’s to you Galileo, and to science
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But Mike, we've proved that no god exists. You said yourself that the 'other' gods are all the same god. I know that's really a bit of a fudge to try and avoid saying other gods don't exist but your religion unequivocally denies the existence of other gods and saying they are all the same god amounts to the same thing. Now, although there's no evidence of the existence of any particular god, there's shed loads of evidence that religions do not worship and follow the same god. In fact there are plenty religious nutcases that would kill you if you suggested that to them so please be careful who you try to convert on that one. The inevitable conclusion of denying other gods is to prove the non existence of your own.
 
I lost what vestige of respect I had for religions when I realised how much it has, and continues, to thwart science.

Galileo, for one, was persecuted for his heathen words saying that we have a sun and our Earth revolves around it. He was tried and the church found him "gravely suspect of heresy," sentencing him to indefinite imprisonment. This was subsequently commuted to house arrest, under which he remained for the rest of his life. (How pathetic of those fools!).

The disgusting thing about all religions, (one of so many things), is not just their ignorance but that they haven’t even the decency to admit they are wrong. Well, eventually they had to acquiesce because they realised just how stupid they were, but it wasn’t until 1981 that the Roman Catholic Church officially forgive Galileo if you can believe that! :eek: A true lion led by ignorant and primitive religious sheep, just like happens today.

Like the saying goes, all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Here’s to you Galileo, and to science
party-smiley-003.gif

What you said above is right, but one can equally apply this to arrogant scientist and those who dismiss that God doesn't exist, sure we have not or scientist have not fully concluded that God definitely does not exist.

Until they can prove positively, and create a model universe from invisible energy, until then it would be wrong to deny God's existence and his hand in initiating the big bang.

We (scientist) have not gone past the big bang and you say time did not exists before the BB, it may be so, but something somewhere reached a critical point in time when the big bang got initiated, how long did it take to reach this critical trigger point? perhaps, it didn't matter since if God initiated it when he wanted it, time did not exist as God is beyond time.

Looking at earth orbiting the sun, oh well, I can defend what early mankind saw, and what he saw was truth at that time because he did not have the means to observe planets or stars with a telescope, so if you ask a modern child, who has not been told about planets and earth , he is also likely to say that the sun rises from the east and sets in west, little does that child know that the sun does not actually rise or set, the earth's rotation causes that effect, but we still use that terminology of sun rise and sun set, either way, try and explain this to a 5 year old, he won't understand fully that the sun does not rise or set, but it is the earth that rotates on its axis.

religion did the same because not many people could have accepted the truth. knowing man's knowledge was limited in understanding the truth.

it does not matter which way you look at it and whether the sun goes around the earth or the earth goes around the sun, all this was of no relevance to man's life 2000 years ago, but it may matter now if we were to launch spacecrafts to visit other planets, so now it would be more relevant to work out launch and trajectory angles when launching rockets for space exploration.

So with time our understanding gets better and more advanced, we i am sure will one day find out the ultimate truth the creator of our universe, but sure it is foolish to dismiss him now through lack of evidence. open mind is the better option.
 
But Mike, we've proved that no god exists. You said yourself that the 'other' gods are all the same god. I know that's really a bit of a fudge to try and avoid saying other gods don't exist but your religion unequivocally denies the existence of other gods and saying they are all the same god amounts to the same thing. Now, although there's no evidence of the existence of any particular god, there's shed loads of evidence that religions do not worship and follow the same god. In fact there are plenty religious nutcases that would kill you if you suggested that to them so please be careful who you try to convert on that one. The inevitable conclusion of denying other gods is to prove the non existence of your own.

My theory or my views, took me 3 years approx to reach a satisfying conclusion that God must be some kind of Energy, the answer to my question which was "where did God find the matter to form this gigantic universe from"

I asked this question to many many people, but no one could give me a satisfying answer, I was quite disappointed, I wanted an answer.

But then one day I was sitting all by myself when the answer revealed itself, shame it took me 3 years, my thinking must have been poor!

but only after I had my answer, with which I was quite content and very pleased, rather than believing what people told me that God ushered a word let there be a universe and the universe came into being, to me that was an answer you would tell your 5 year old child if he had asked you that same question.

But I wanted a proper acceptable answer, a logical one, one that you think can be possible. One where it can be proven eventually, and abides by our scientific understanding, like matter is composed of energy and hence the two are interchangeable but cannot be created or destroyed.

So after I got my answer, I would continue to ask anyone I would meet, like I used to ask before when I was genuinely trying to seek the truth, so when I asked a few more people at different time, I was amazed how one Muslim friend I asked came back exactly what i wanted to hear, he suggested that God must be some kind of energy from which he created the matter! wow, that Muslim bloke became my life long friend!

Then another day a couple of JW dropped in, I invited them in, and asked the same question where did God bring his raw materials from to create the universe from?

and my goodness, this was the second person who came back with exactly what i wanted to hear, and he put it in real scientific terms too.

I wouldn't say what happened and why I found it necessary to check with religious books from Bhagwat gita, the Holy koran, the bible, the Sikh philosophy on God, and I was so pleased that what I had come up with was all there yet it took me 3 years to search for this what i call the truth.

However, my mind is still open and still absorbing more on secrets of Universe, I will never dismiss God until someone can really give me a convincing answer and a proof. until then I shall continue to believe in a father of the universe.:cool:

But i9 am quite happy with what people believe in their God or gods and I am quite happy if someone wants worship a cow, or someone wants to pray deities, we are all made of free will, so you choose your own path, there is no compulsion and force against your will, if one is happy praying a sheep, then let it be so, as long as he is not bothering my views, or telling me to accept his view, same way i am not going to force my views on anyone, but it is for their taking if they so desire.
 
I'd like to read that 'Bhagwat gita'.


(@)(@)
 
I'd like to read that 'Bhagwat gita'.


(@)(@)

I had an Indian g/f , she is from a gujarati clan, and she brought her BG with her, it was in the house for so many years yet i never bothered looking into it, then after I worked out my answer, and then through another incident, it made me look into it, and right on its page 1 (introduction) and English version, it said The concept of God and concept of Absolute Truth are not on the same level, The BG hits on the target of the Absolute Truth, whereas the conception of God indicates a controller.

The absolute truth indicates summum bonumand this is a sanskrit word which translates into English as The Ultimate Source of all Energies!



The Bible says in Hebrew Chapter 11, para 3 that it is by faith that we understand that the universe was created by God's word (command) so that what can be seen was made out of what cannot be seen!


Sikh interpretation of a holy passage from its holy book, says clearly that God is Almighty energy and Almighty Energy is God.


In Koran, I have not come across any direct remarks about the attributes of God, it deters one from doings so on the bases that we could not possibly understand God or his concept as it is beyond our comprehension. A bit disappointed really, but i am sure many Muslims agree that God must be part of this energy or that God created Energy, which if he created energy then Einstein's revelation of Energy cannot be destroyed nor created conflicts with this idea that God created energy.
 
My theory or my views, took me 3 years approx to reach a satisfying conclusion that God must be some kind of Energy, the answer to my question which was "where did God find the matter to form this gigantic universe from"


show us your working out then. :mrgreen:
 
Mike, all you're doing is deciding to agree with thoughts of men/women from thousands of years ago... yet their thoughts are of wondering what's going on without a knowledge of science..

You have the science knowledge, yet choose to hang on to those archaic thoughts...

your 'revalation' is nothing more than a realisation that you can't understand the latest scientific answers..

I'm pleased that you're happy with your lot, but please stop trying to convince others that what you believe is even relevant these days !!
A bit like the drunk who's decided that the bacon frazzle is the new god, and tries to convince everyone in the pub !!!

Sit down Mike, you're drunk !!
 
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