Dumbing down?

[Dave54]

It was the Labour parties assumption that all kids are equal. The 11 plus selection exam allowed bright kids from poor homes to get a top academic education, and those who failed the 11 plus got a practical education suited to their abilities. So everyone was educated according to there abilities and there was a good chance that they would get a job. The comprehensive system dragged all children to the lowest level.
And then the do-gooders got discipline banned!!

Exactly! Couldn't have any eliteism in their perfect socialist society. Except of course for private schooling the children of the elite who could afford to pay. MPs for example. . ?
Once again their idea of "equality" actually made people less equal.

 

[masona]

The fundamental cause of all our homegrown social problems began with the abolition of discipline in the education system.

Every generation of scum created by this, then go on to bring up scum children, and so it goes on.

I'm convinced of it.

That's my theory as well, even some children's are too molly coddled nowadays so they can do either anything they want which can disturb the society we live in

I have also noticed parents do not have time to teach their children's homework as they are working all the hours just to survive.

 

[joe-90]

The problem is that pigs breed pigs - and they are doing so in great numbers 'cuz it's their job'. Stop rewarding chavs to get up the duff.

 

[JBR]

I'd like to thank you all, well... nearly all (sorry Joe), for your interesting views all of which I agree with.

It is, I believe, primarily a problem with society these days, but who's responsible for that? (Rhetorical question of course.)

However, one other cause which I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is government interference and related 'experimentation' by educationalist 'experts'. I know this from first hand, as I have been a teacher since the National Curriculum was first dreamed up. This infamous document (or collection of documents) has been constantly changed and 'updated' over the years to the extent that one thing that is very important in education - consistency - has disappeared out of the window.

I have experienced many different ideas, some admittedly which I thought had promise but the majority of which resulted in nothing but confusion for pupils and mountains of needless paperwork for teachers.

It is gratifying that the majority of people on here (sorry Joe) are well aware of the problems we face and the causes of our disgraceful position with regard to education.

What a pity that the government, the people who are in a position to do something about it, seem unwilling or unable to do so.

 

[joe-90]

No need to be sorry. Do you have a PhD?

 

[EddieM]

It was the Labour parties assumption that all kids are equal. The 11 plus selection exam allowed bright kids from poor homes to get a top academic education, and those who failed the 11 plus got a practical education suited to their abilities. So everyone was educated according to there abilities and there was a good chance that they would get a job. The comprehensive system dragged all children to the lowest level.
And then the do-gooders got discipline banned!!

Hmmm, not necessarily, both myself and my father failed our 11+ My father got a 1st from Leeds Uni and a DPhil (pHD) from Oxford university (he did his pHD in 2 years), personally I only managed a 2:1 from Bristol Uni.

My father was also a prince of wales award for innovation winner in the 80's.

 

[joe-90]

That's odd as you once said that despite getting drunk nightly you got a first in chemistry.

 

[longdogs]

One reason we are falling below the standards of Asia is that half of them live here.

 

[EddieM]

It was hardly a serious post was it !! 2:1 no I didn't get drunk every night either (couldn't afford to). And yes I had to pay for accommodation, but no tuition fees.

 

[joe-90]

See Eddie? If you want to tell porkies you have to have a good memory. I don't tell porkies so I never get caught out.

 

[JBR]

One reason we are falling below the standards of Asia is that half of them live here.

Well there's Asia and there's Asia.

A few years ago a new pupil was presented to me at the beginning of the academic year. She was Chinese and she and her family had just arrived in the UK. The problem was that she didn't speak a word of English, neither did any of her family except for her father who did have a little English.

Our local education authority would normally have been obliged to provide a translator, at least for some of the time, but the best they could do was a Cantonese speaker for a few hours a week. Unfortunately, that was the 'wrong' Chinese: the girl and her family spoke Mandarin.

Nevertheless, by the end of the year she was top of the class! I claim no credit for that; her own determination and that of her family were what did it.

 

[JBR]

I've just heard on the TV news an interview with the Dutch education minister (The Netherlands came top in the education survey). She explained her country's success in language and maths was due to their concentrating almost exclusively, at least at primary level, on the basics - what we used to call 'the three Rs' in the olden days, and ditching all the arty-farty stuff.

This is something for which I have been criticising our educational system for many years: we have a curriculum crammed with so much unnecessary nonsense that there remains little time for what really matters.

A good example is PHSE. For those unaware of it, that stands for Personal, Health and Social Education; you know, the sort of thing our parents taught us when I was a lad.

Then, not too long ago, the government in its wisdom decided that because our children were becoming so fat we'd have to do at least three hours of PE every week. The fact that parents were stuffing their children with burgers and chips and plonking them in front of the TV instead of taking them out for a walk or a swim seemed to have escaped them.

See what I mean about government and 'educational expert' intervention?

 

[big-all]

what we have is young people growing up with many problems in there own life requiring stability guidance boundaries where nessisery
they need to learn basic human values like right and wrong fair and unfair to be charitable and giving to be understanding and helpful
all this happening when they are extremely immature and later have so many hormones there heads will explode

and what do they have helping them

parents often working silly hours to pay the bills often one parent with little spare time to interact

we have the tv as a child minder whilst the parents carry on working from home
we also have the pollution off inappropriate tv programs internet content and games
we also have teachers less able to teach as "targets " detract them from a good smooth schooling with the constant changes unsettling pupils and teachers alike
yes as said we have the removal off "heavy"discipline so the lack off respect this entails
but it was nessisery to reduce the barbaric element when i was at school you would get 2 strokes off the strap on your hands if you weren't in line to enter the school after dinner break or 30 seconds late

where you divide up communities and remove roll models and the extended family by getting "on your bike " to look for work
then progressive generations moral compass can worsen with each generation causing a decline in morals

we off course must not blame the kids if the boundaries and correct guidance wasn't there

 

[joe-90]

Big-all doesn't seem to realise that he's suggesting that the problems in our society all stem from the moving away from Christian values. Wake up mate.

 

[longdogs]

One reason we are falling below the standards of Asia is that half of them live here.

Well there's Asia and there's Asia.

A few years ago a new pupil was presented to me at the beginning of the academic year. She was Chinese and she and her family had just arrived in the UK. The problem was that she didn't speak a word of English, neither did any of her family except for her father who did have a little English.

Our local education authority would normally have been obliged to provide a translator, at least for some of the time, but the best they could do was a Cantonese speaker for a few hours a week. Unfortunately, that was the 'wrong' Chinese: the girl and her family spoke Mandarin.

Nevertheless, by the end of the year she was top of the class! I claim no credit for that; her own determination and that of her family were what did it.

I agree that some of the best minds in the world are Asian and particularly from the sub-continent. I think my point is that whilst all the British kids are learning Islamic studies or songs in Urdu or black history, they are not learning English or maths.