You stupid, stupid, trivial, childish little ****.
Timber frame garage.
- Thread starter Screech20
- Start date
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Genuine PMSL! 
I am not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse.
NHBC technical guidance, approved documents, various RIBA publications and technical booklets from a few other organisations will show you details of this situation of timber frame clad both sides with fire resisting materials, 100% of the surface area is then non combustible, you achieve 1/2 hour or whatever is required fire resistance, the timber is only 15% of the internal "surface" area.
FYI, CLT is a solid wall of timber, that 100% of the surface area, people are building with it now, within boundaries, and clad or treat it for fire.
You seem to be arguing about a specific way a clause in the standard is written, without being able (understandably) to define it, or offer any reason why timber frame does not meet it, and seem to be ignoring the fact that people build with timber frame in this situation all the time, and many technical guidance documents support it.
All the OP wants to know is can he build it from timber frame if he clads it, the answer is yes, your posts do nothing but confuse the issue.
That others advise to ignore building regs altogether is for the OP to decide to ignore or not.
You are trying to win the wrong argument, and are not being very helpfull to the OP.
Get to your room and no dinner for you!
I'm not - my question was a perfectly reasonable response to your assertion that the OP could build it from timber frame, and clad it in fire resisting materials to meet regs.
If they do, and don't include any disclaimers denying the accuracy or validity of their advice then fine.
But I'm still worried about you saying it's OK when your knowledge of the requirements is at the "1/2 hour or whatever is required fire resistance" level.
I have no knowledge of the requirements, or how to meet them, or where to find guidance which can be relied upon, which is why I am "ignoring" it. Would you rather I gave advice which I had more or less just dreamed up myself? I have, more than once, suggested or referred to the possibility of looking for official or authoritative guidance.
And I've not been arguing about the way a clause is written - it is written quite clearly - I've been arguing with people who think they can change how it's written and still have it mean the same.
They are only going to confuse people who think that "49.8% of new cars sold in 2013 run on diesel" and "the new cars sold in 2013 run on 49.8% diesel" say the same thing.
IMO it's also for the site to not allow.
The argument is with people who think that the regulations require the use of materials which are substantially non-combustible, not that they require the substantial use of materials which are just plain non-combustible, and it's a vital distinction, which it is essential for people to understand.
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Shorthand, not the sum of all my knowledge, not going to write an essay on a forum. He will likely need 1/2 hours fire resistance, (as well as the use of non combustible cladding), I don't know without seeing all the specifics if he only needs 1/2 hour or more (which I don't care to), hence "1/2 hour or whatever is required".
Right......?
I do have some knowledge of the requirements, how to meet them, and where to find many sources of guidance, some which I and others have already specifically mentioned.
There is nothing difficult about this situation, timber frame clad with fire resisting materials will satisfy the building regs peeps and it is constructed this way (with approval) very regularly.
He may need to bash out some particular construction details, and there are timber frame books available with detailed drawings that will meet building regs if he doesn't have an architect to do it for him, but the shorthand answer to his question is "yes".
You are disagreeing with advice when you admit you have no knowledge of the requirements, how to meet them, and refuse to define what constitutes a substantial use of non-combustible material whilst arguing with anyone else's take on it, and can't say anything more than "speak to an expert".
What help are you being exactly?
Zero.
Nill.
Nada.
Zilch.
Bas is an expert at getting all hot around the collar and telling people they must not break the law, even if he has no clue what laws are being broken.
Very odd chap indeed. Interesting fellow though and a coward.
Are you an expert in law Bas?
Irrespective of your expertise, do you not have an opinion?
Surely Bas, you of all people are not bereft of an opinion?
With approval.
Not by the constructor simply deciding that his building meets the requirements of being constructed substantially of non-combustible material and is thus a Class 6 exempt building.
For his own amusement, or to form part of a Building Regulations approval application?
His question recognised the fact that as the building was too close to the boundary it would need permission unless it were constructed substantially of non-combustible material, and what could he do to ensure that it was constructed substantially of non-combustible material. The Building Regulations do not say that you cannot put a building on the boundary which is not constructed substantially of non-combustible material, only that you cannot do so without prior approval.
You keep talking about designs getting approval, and documenting construction details - it really does not sound as if you are saying that he won't need to apply for approval because his building will be exempt.
Why are so many people here either incapable of reading and understanding straightforward English, or of a mindset to deliberately pretend that they cannot read or understand it?
Nowhere have I argued with anybody's take on what constitutes a substantial use of non-combustible material. What I have done is to try to get a succession of what appears to be semi-literate ****wits to understand that the regulations require a substantial use of non-combustible material, and not a use of substantially non-combustible material, and that the two are very different.
German car makers have a 35.6% share of the EU market. That does NOT mean that 35.6% of every car sold in the EU is made by a German manufacturer.
"Substantially" refers to the amount of the building which is made of non-combustible materials, not to the degree of non-combustibility of any materials used. If "non-combustible" meant "totally, and in all circumstances. completely and utterly non-combustible no matter what you do to it" then you could build something entirely composed of materials which almost met that definition and it would not comply.
The help which people here seem to need with regard to comprehending the written language. Except you all are either too thick or too willfully opposed to the idea of actually reading what I write for it to be doing much good.
My opinion is of no relevance, as I have at no point attempted to define, or argue with anybody who has attempted to define, what "constructed substantially of non-combustible material" means.
COWARD
So because I have not argued with anybody who has said something like "substantial means X% by weight/volume/surface area/cost", and because I don't know of any official guidance on the matter and because I have never been in a position where I needed to find out what it might mean, I'm a coward because I won't just make a figure up and say I think that's what it means?
Please ask Admin to change your user name to Richard Head - it would be far more appropriate than your current one.
Please ask Admin to change your user name to Richard Head - it would be far more appropriate than your current one.
We can all read thanks, your answer just isnt anything to do with the question, or particularly helpfull.
Whether the OP goes through proper channels or not is his business, I doubt anyone will decide to or not based upon some internet guy. The rest of us are just telling him what he can do and meet the regs, which is what he is asking.
You should keep the condensending insults in general discussion where they belong.
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