They want to install Smartmeters

[JohnW2]

I don't think 1/2 hour updates are really going to help. If my central heating boiler modulates, or mark/space controls output the 1/2 hour slot is to long, if modulated only that means boiler is working well, if using mark/space then I need to do some adjustments.

Having lived without pipe gas for 30+ years, I'm obviously out of touch, but I though that most/all domestic gas meters were still bellows/diaphragm types.

If that is the case, then they presumably are never going to be able to provide precise minute-by-minute (or second-by-second) information on gas usage, in a comparable manner to electricity meters (or turbine/rotor/whatever gas meters), particularly at low flow rates - since basically all they can tell you is how long it takes to use a "bellows full" of gas?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

The supply companies are being ordered to install these thing to a certain percentage of premises by 2020.

They probably don't care if the meters will be suitable in the future or not. They will likely be compensated for having to replace the faulty or inadequate ones.


It really is not supposed to make sense; it is making out that the authorities are doing something to combat a problem.

You seem to have too much faith that those in charge know what they are doing.




Remember - all nuclear produced energy would be free ???

 

[JohnW2]

It really is not supposed to make sense; it is making out that the authorities are doing something to combat a problem.

As I hope is fairly clear, I don't think it makes much sense as an attempted solution to the problem.

You seem to have too much faith that those in charge know what they are doing.

I don't have any faith that the government, or anyone else involved in the smart meter exercise, know what they are doing. I do, however, have a bit more faith than many others seem to have in my belief that the regulator (with media looking over their shoulder) would not allow the system to result in the profits of suppliers escalating.

There is a finite generation capacity, with (currently) a certain level. The cost of generation and distribution are roughly known, and will generally be reasonably proportional to the amount of energy used by consumers. If the present facilities were used to their maximum capability (i.e. full capacity, 24h/day), with present tariffs the cost per kWh should therefore remain roughly the same. If tariff changes were such that average consumer costs (for the same amount of usage) were appreciably increased, then either the suppliers would be making excessive profits (which, as I've said, I hope would not be allowed) or else (as you suggest) the government might 'pocket' that excessive profit (which would not help the problem at all).

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

It would work, as long as the customer stays with that supplier.

 

[JohnW2]

It would work, as long as the customer stays with that supplier.

I'm not sure I understand that, since it's hard to believe that there ever can/could be very marked differences between prices of different suppliers - since the most expensive ones would gradually lose their market!

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

Having lived without pipe gas for 30+ years, I'm obviously out of touch, but I though that most/all domestic gas meters were still bellows/diaphragm types.

No, I don't think that has been the case for some time. To a certain extent it will depend on what the meter fitter has on the van that day ! And I guess that will depend on which model was 2d cheaper to buy for the last batch.

As I hope is fairly clear, I don't think it makes much sense as an attempted solution to the problem.

I agree, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that "there's a problem, something needs to be seen to be done, this is something, so lets do it"

 

[JohnW2]

No, I don't think that has been the case for some time. To a certain extent it will depend on what the meter fitter has on the van that day ! And I guess that will depend on which model was 2d cheaper to buy for the last batch.

As I've said, I've had no reason to look at a gas meter or even think abouit them for 30+ years - so, as I said, I could be out of touch. However, for what it's worth (and I obviouslsy realise that Mr Wikipedia doesn't always tell the truth) ...

Types of gas meters
Diaphragm/bellows meters
These are the most common type of gas meter, seen in almost all residential and small commercial installations.

In fact, my impression is that gas meters are changed so rarely that if (as was the case) that's what they were a few decades back, many/most probably still are today!

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

While we have a mechanical meter at our current house and our previous one, my parents had a (much smaller) electronic turbine meter, as do both my rental properties. Based on my small sample size, I would say that "almost all" residential properties is a little inaccurate - my sample saying that only 2 out of 5 are mecahnical type (of unknown internals).
However, among the reasons for keeping them, and indeed continuing to fit them, are their simplicity, long term accuracy, and reliability - not to mention cost.

EDIT: My parents had their gas meter changed as (I assume) the battery ran out. The display started getting harder to read (lack of contrast in the digits) which is typical of an under-driven LCD display. The whole procedure was a farce ...
When dad had remodelled the room the gas meter was in, he had made a cabinet to hide the meter which took the depth of the meter (and a little more). No way would an old mechanical job fit without him having to make a new cabinet to take the depth, and which would (apart from being difficult in terms of matching materials) also start to encroach into the space needed to use the loo (neither the meter nor the loo were moved during the remodelling). He had pointed this out to them while requesting the new meter - and they didn't even want to fit a new meter till he told them "faulty display" which meant no more meter reads for them.
IIRC there were something like 3 or 4 visits before someone came with a meter that would fit - even though they came with a note on the job sheet about which meter to take along.
And for good measure, he had to rearrange one appointment to avoid a clash with a hospital appointment (he was having treatment for what later turned out to be cancer) - which resulted in a "snottygram" letter threatening legal action if he continued to refuse to allow the meter change. Not being the sort of person to allow such a thing to pass uncomplained about, and knowing how to express himself when complaining, he received quite a grovelling apology about that.

And finally, AIUI these new (so called) smart meters are supposed to have a 10 year battery life - after which the meter has to be changed. Doesn't sound like a low cost option compared with the old mechanical types with much longer service lives.

 

[JohnW2]

While we have a mechanical meter at our current house and our previous one, my parents had a (much smaller) electronic turbine meter, as do both my rental properties. Based on my small sample size, I would say that "almost all" residential properties is a little inaccurate - my sample saying that only 2 out of 5 are mecahnical type (of unknown internals).

Fair enough. As I said, I really didn't have any reason to know - so if you think that statement is/was inaccurate, you should perhaps complain to Mr Wikepedia (or just 'correct it'!), rather than me!

And finally, AIUI these new (so called) smart meters are supposed to have a 10 year battery life - after which the meter has to be changed. Doesn't sound like a low cost option compared with the old mechanical types with much longer service lives.

It surely cannot be beyond the wit of man to design a meter whose battery could be replaced without having to replace the entire meter?

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

Perhaps having an accessible battery exposes security issues - e.g. removal of the battery preventing the meter recording consumption ?

 

[JohnW2]

Perhaps having an accessible battery exposes security issues - e.g. removal of the battery preventing the meter recording consumption ?

I'm sure that it would also not be beyond the wit of man to take steps to address that possibility to a substantial extent.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Jackrae]

Such as 2 batteries : 1 built-in to run the system and one replaceable to charge the built-in unit.
Or was that too simple ?

 

[SimonH2]

I'm sure it could be worked around - but that's what they've decided to build

 

[Diver Fred]

Doesn't sound like a low cost option compared with the old mechanical types with much longer service lives.

The electronic meter at our house was changed for a mechanical one - without notice. I was very surprised to the move to mechanical technology when I opened the outside meter cupboard. One can only assume it was when the gas had been connected for around 10 years - Gas was connected in '97.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As I hope is fairly clear, I don't think it makes much sense as an attempted solution to the problem.

Neither does leaving the EU as an attempted solution to the economic misery inflicted by a government determined to reduce the size of the state for ideological reasons, but people still decided to do it.

I do, however, have a bit more faith than many others seem to have in my belief that the regulator (with media looking over their shoulder) would not allow the system to result in the profits of suppliers escalating.

I'm just going by their track record.