They want to install Smartmeters

[JohnW2]

I never got my answer to the question about whose electricity account we are talking about but, if it is the tenant's, I'm not even convinced that, despite being the owner of the property, the landlord has a legal right to 'interfere' in relation to the metering of someone else's electricity account.

Kind Regards, John

 

[HawkEye244]

It's not silliness, it's a matter of law.

The tenant may well have acted without your permission, just as if he'd had the windows replaced, in which case your remedy would be to require him to arrange their removal and the old ones re-instated, not against the window company who installed them.

If the tenant will not, or cannot, get the meter removed then you will have to evict him and/or sue him for your losses, which I imagine would require you to show that you had suffered a loss, and not wanting there to be one in a house where you will not be affected by its presence unless you were to move back in would, I imagine, not be considered a loss. Given the widespread beliefs about them, it could more easily be argued that it was a benefit in that it makes your property more attractive to people.

No matter misguided the current roll-out is, and no matter how misleading the advertising, and no matter how undue the pressure applied to people to get them to have them, there are no drawbacks to having one, nor will there be until everybody has one and the "drawbacks" are just the way things are if you choose to have an electricity supply.

As much as I would resist having one installed, I would never make the presence of one a factor when buying a house.

Your tenant has done something irreversible which you don't like, I get that, and everything above must be qualified by IANAL. One of those should probably be consulted, but my best guess is that you are just going to have to suck it up.

A smart meter installation is not irreversible.

 

[HawkEye244]

I never got my answer to the question about whose electricity account we are talking about but, if it is the tenant's, I'm not even convinced that, despite being the owner of the property, the landlord has a legal right to 'interfere' in relation to the metering of someone else's electricity account.

Kind Regards, John

That's your opinion. That's clear. Leave it now. You're not going to convince me to your way of thinking.

 

[flameport]

My tenant was duped into having a smart meter fitted in my house without my permission, I would never have given it.

Doesn't matter in the slightest - landlord permission is not required.
Tenants can change suppliers to whoever they want and have a different type of meter installed at any time.

If/when the landlord lives in the property again, they can also change suppliers and meters as desired.

 

[JohnW2]

That's your opinion.

It's not an opinion - I merely said that I was not convinced that you would have the right to 'interfere in' the matter of metering of someone else's electricity account (if that's what it is - you still haven't told me). That's obviously a crucial matter (to which I don't know the answer, nor even 'have an opinion about') in relation to the question you posed ....

If anyone knows an easy way to get these removed without fuss and angst please let me know ..

... since the answer might just be that you don't have a right to have the meter removed at all, easily or otherwise.

Kind Regards, John

 

[HawkEye244]

Doesn't matter in the slightest - landlord permission is not required.
Tenants can change suppliers to whoever they want and have a different type of meter installed at any time.

If/when the landlord lives in the property again, they can also change suppliers and meters as desired.

The time and cost in me having it changed back would result in the tenant losing all of their deposit and then some.

If the tenant does it while still occupying the property they have a chance to remedy without taking on any costs.

That's the sort of reasonable person that I am.

 

[HawkEye244]

It's not an opinion - I merely said that I was not convinced that you would have the right to 'interfere in' the matter of metering of someone else's electricity account (if that's what it is - you still haven't told me). That's obviously a crucial matter (to which I don't know the answer, nor even 'have an opinion about') in relation to the question you posed ....

... since the answer might just be that you don't have a right to have the meter removed at all, easily or otherwise.

Kind Regards, John

I'm not asking your advice John, neither am I looking for a debate.

If you re-read what I posted a few pages back, I was asking about an easy way to have a smart meter removed. I didn't ask about whether it was a good idea or not and why. You're entitled to your opinion.

Nobody here has legal knowledge or training so please dont tell me what my rights are. The only advice I am interested is from someone that has removed their smart meter and is willing to share their experience.

 

[JohnW2]

The time and cost in me having it changed back would result in the tenant losing all of their deposit and then some.

I imagine that depends upon contractual matters. If, as I imagine, the Tenancy Agreement allows the tenant to choose their electricity supplier (and hence, by implication, possibly the electricity meter) then, unless this issue is explicitly addressed in the Agreement, I'm not at all sure that you would be allowed to charge them (by withholding of deposit repayment) for the cost of changing that to some other arrangement when the tenancy ended.

Would you be saying similar things if the tenant had chosen an electricity supplier and requested an E7 account - in which case the supplier would have installed a dual-tariff meter?

Kind Regards, John

 

[HawkEye244]

I imagine that depends upon contractual matters. If, as I imagine, the Tenancy Agreement allows the tenant to choose their electricity supplier (and hence, by implication, possibly the electricity meter) then, unless this issue is explicitly addressed in the Agreement, I'm not at all sure that you would be allowed to charge them (by withholding of deposit repayment) for the cost of changing that to some other arrangement when the tenancy ended.

Would you be saying similar things if the tenant had chosen an electricity supplier and requested an E7 account - in which case the supplier would have installed a dual-tariff meter?

Kind Regards, John

You are wasting your time John. If you want the last word that's fine. I won't be replying to you any further in this thread.

 

[JohnW2]

If you re-read what I posted a few pages back, I was asking about an easy way to have a smart meter removed.

I know - and that's what I addressed in the post of mine you're quoting.

I know you say that you don't want advice or opinions but, as you say, none of us are lawyers, so whether you want to be told this or not, I think that, before you worry about an 'easy way' to get the meter removed, it would probably make sense for you to first get 'legal advice' (asking the supplier might be enough) as to whether you (as someone who probably is not the account holder - you still haven't told us) has any right to have the meter removed at all - since at least a couple of here have our doubts.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

A smart meter installation is not irreversible.

Then go and get it reversed - simples.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The time and cost in me having it changed back would result in the tenant losing all of their deposit and then some.

Of course, if you re legally entitled to do that. If you are not then it would be right for you to end up being the one gripping the rail

If the tenant does it while still occupying the property they have a chance to remedy without taking on any costs.

Then ask them to do it.

You seem quite clear in your mind what the legal situation is, and what your options are, so WT-whatever are you doing asking here?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You are wasting your time John.

The balance is still tipped in your favour, then, as you are wasting everyone's time.

I won't be replying to you any further in this thread.

I suggest you don't reply to anybody.

 

[winston1]

then a tenant should have as much right to make that choice as would an owner-occupier. If a person is not allowed to chose to have a smart meter if they are a tenant, but would be allowed to make that choice as an owner-occupier, I would be inclined to call that a 'double standard' being imposed by the landlord.

Kind Regards, John

Not at all. Tenants are frequently restricted as to what they can do compared to owner/occupiers. Two such common restrictions that come to mind are no pets and no installing satellite dishes.

 

[JohnW2]

Not at all. Tenants are frequently restricted as to what they can do compared to owner/occupiers. Two such common restrictions that come to mind are no pets and no installing satellite dishes.

Well, albeit totally irrelevant to this discussion, he was going on about 'double standards' (by which he seemed to mean different standards for a tenant and a landlord) - so if a tenant is not allowed to have pets or install a satellite dish, but the landlord would be allowed to if he moved into the house, then I reckon that would be 'double standards' by his definition.

Tenancy Agreements can, and (as you say) often do, contain restrictions (which I think have to be 'reasonable' to be legally acceptable) such as you describe. However, if the tenant has to contract for their own electricity supply, I suspect it's not allowed (and I certainly have never seen it in a Tenancy Agreement) to prevent them from selecting a supplier of their choice - and if that represents a change from the last supplier who provided electricity to the premises, that will quite often involve a change of meter.

Kind Regards, John