D
durhamplumber
"""25% of Britains GDP slowly being poured down the drain"""
Would carry on being worse in EU...good job we left.
Would carry on being worse in EU...good job we left.
25% of Britains GDP slowly being poured down the drain ...
- Thread starter JP_
- Start date
Arch-brexer Nigel Lawson tried to get residency in France (they turned him down)
"Former British finance minister Nigel Lawson, who chaired the official pro-Brexit campaign in the 2016 referendum, faced claims of hypocrisy after it emerged that he was applying for a French residency card."
"Former British finance minister Nigel Lawson, who chaired the official pro-Brexit campaign in the 2016 referendum, faced claims of hypocrisy after it emerged that he was applying for a French residency card."
And neither are brexers.
London v Amsterdam. Is the City losing to the Dutch? (msn.com)
I read that Amsterdam has overtaken London as Europe’s top share trading hub. Should I be worried?
Is this the sort of thing you usually worry about? The FT reported on Thursday that €9.2 billion of shares a day are now traded on the Amsterdam stock market(s), a fourfold increase since December. London volumes fell sharply to €8.6 billion. This is because since Brexit, Brussels has not recognised London as having equivalent regulatory status. Until it does, the business of trading euro denominated shares has to go somewhere other than the City.
Sounds pretty bad. Does that mean loss of jobs and commissions and tax revenues?
If you get past the headline you see that even the FT said this “would not mean thousands of jobs leaving London”….”the tax hit would be limited”. It’s a symbolic move more than anything.
The City traders haven’t moved to Holland?
No. A guy in London (they are mostly guys, don’t write in) is still pushing a button in London, that leads to a trade going via Amsterdam, which comes back to London. This is in EU shares typically traded by foreign banks. The equities market is not that big compared to others: interest rate derivatives, foreign exchange, M&A deals, that’s where it is at. London is where the money is, where the fund managers that allocate capital want to be based.
But there must be a loss in tax revenue?
All that is really happening is that the order flow is being routed to Amsterdam, the teams are still mostly in London, and on tax that is what really matters. I asked around about what the hit must be and couldn’t get a clear answer, partly because no one is concerned enough to work it out. But if you think of it in terms of 0.001p per trade, you are along the right lines.
You’re saying it doesn’t matter?
I’m saying it is symbolic. It’s a win for Amsterdam, albeit in a very low margin business. The trades could return to London if the EU and the UK do agree a deal on financial services. If they don’t, the question is what else does the City lose? Real people? Actual money?
The fear is that there is a drip, dip of migrating activity which slowly undermines London’s appeal.
At this point, you can’t rule that out. Even those in the City who were blasé about Brexit a year ago are sucking their teeth a bit today.
Can Brexit be good for the City?
It is presently hard to see how, the question is how bad it is. Some say this is just markets doing what they do, adjusting to new realities. The whole point about money is that it is fluid; it moves about. And in what sound like very large amounts. But there are times when “billions of pounds” aren’t that significant. At the moment, this is one of those times, unless it leads to more activity. If share settlement – the Clearing of trades – moved to the Netherlands, well, that’s a story…
But this sort of thing has happened before?
Sure. A few years ago Liffe, the London International Financial Futures and Options Exchange, lost its dominance in the giant German bund market. Traders flocked to Frankfurt instead. At the time this was deemed important. No one ever talks about it anymore.
The City found new markets. It always, always, does. It has so much going for it in terms of language, infrastructure, rules, traditions and much else. It is very hard to recreate somewhere else, even if the Dutch were minded to do so, which they probably aren’t. Culturally, Britain likes bankers, is good at banking. It is not for everyone.
You are suggesting Amsterdam is unlikely to replace London as a global financial centre?
Have you ever been? It is long on canals and cannabis and offers some more sordid pursuits. No one is asking if Amsterdam is likely to usurp New York as a banking hub, but the idea is not much less likely.
Maybe London should strike back anyway? Go for the cannabis and tulips market?
London is going for the stock market listed cannabis market as it happens. But there is no shortage of tulips, as the Dutch discovered when the market for the bulbs collapsed in 1637 after what was perhaps the first asset bubble.
London is also likely to be the centre of new, fast emerging markets in hydrogen, medical cannabis and others not yet invented.
So why are so many people hopping up and down about the share trade thing?
It is interesting to see who suddenly gets interested in really nerdy financial stuff when it suits their politics. The Guardian is seemingly terribly worried about the City of London, which it usually hates. Perhaps it will launch an appeal to Save Our City Traders.
I read that Amsterdam has overtaken London as Europe’s top share trading hub. Should I be worried?
Is this the sort of thing you usually worry about? The FT reported on Thursday that €9.2 billion of shares a day are now traded on the Amsterdam stock market(s), a fourfold increase since December. London volumes fell sharply to €8.6 billion. This is because since Brexit, Brussels has not recognised London as having equivalent regulatory status. Until it does, the business of trading euro denominated shares has to go somewhere other than the City.
Sounds pretty bad. Does that mean loss of jobs and commissions and tax revenues?
If you get past the headline you see that even the FT said this “would not mean thousands of jobs leaving London”….”the tax hit would be limited”. It’s a symbolic move more than anything.
The City traders haven’t moved to Holland?
No. A guy in London (they are mostly guys, don’t write in) is still pushing a button in London, that leads to a trade going via Amsterdam, which comes back to London. This is in EU shares typically traded by foreign banks. The equities market is not that big compared to others: interest rate derivatives, foreign exchange, M&A deals, that’s where it is at. London is where the money is, where the fund managers that allocate capital want to be based.
But there must be a loss in tax revenue?
All that is really happening is that the order flow is being routed to Amsterdam, the teams are still mostly in London, and on tax that is what really matters. I asked around about what the hit must be and couldn’t get a clear answer, partly because no one is concerned enough to work it out. But if you think of it in terms of 0.001p per trade, you are along the right lines.
You’re saying it doesn’t matter?
I’m saying it is symbolic. It’s a win for Amsterdam, albeit in a very low margin business. The trades could return to London if the EU and the UK do agree a deal on financial services. If they don’t, the question is what else does the City lose? Real people? Actual money?
The fear is that there is a drip, dip of migrating activity which slowly undermines London’s appeal.
At this point, you can’t rule that out. Even those in the City who were blasé about Brexit a year ago are sucking their teeth a bit today.
Can Brexit be good for the City?
It is presently hard to see how, the question is how bad it is. Some say this is just markets doing what they do, adjusting to new realities. The whole point about money is that it is fluid; it moves about. And in what sound like very large amounts. But there are times when “billions of pounds” aren’t that significant. At the moment, this is one of those times, unless it leads to more activity. If share settlement – the Clearing of trades – moved to the Netherlands, well, that’s a story…
But this sort of thing has happened before?
Sure. A few years ago Liffe, the London International Financial Futures and Options Exchange, lost its dominance in the giant German bund market. Traders flocked to Frankfurt instead. At the time this was deemed important. No one ever talks about it anymore.
The City found new markets. It always, always, does. It has so much going for it in terms of language, infrastructure, rules, traditions and much else. It is very hard to recreate somewhere else, even if the Dutch were minded to do so, which they probably aren’t. Culturally, Britain likes bankers, is good at banking. It is not for everyone.
You are suggesting Amsterdam is unlikely to replace London as a global financial centre?
Have you ever been? It is long on canals and cannabis and offers some more sordid pursuits. No one is asking if Amsterdam is likely to usurp New York as a banking hub, but the idea is not much less likely.
Maybe London should strike back anyway? Go for the cannabis and tulips market?
London is going for the stock market listed cannabis market as it happens. But there is no shortage of tulips, as the Dutch discovered when the market for the bulbs collapsed in 1637 after what was perhaps the first asset bubble.
London is also likely to be the centre of new, fast emerging markets in hydrogen, medical cannabis and others not yet invented.
So why are so many people hopping up and down about the share trade thing?
It is interesting to see who suddenly gets interested in really nerdy financial stuff when it suits their politics. The Guardian is seemingly terribly worried about the City of London, which it usually hates. Perhaps it will launch an appeal to Save Our City Traders.
S*** happens
every dog has there day
remainer , remoaner or brexiteer u are all in the same boat
best make the best of it or ship out
this country can always flog more arms to the world
do a buy one get one free deal under cut the French and Germans
every dog has there day
remainer , remoaner or brexiteer u are all in the same boat
best make the best of it or ship out
this country can always flog more arms to the world
do a buy one get one free deal under cut the French and Germans
D
durhamplumber
Keep your kilt on man.
We could have some type of arms advertising slogan
bigger bang for your buck
you have tried the rest now try the best
No bomb too small.
that’s the spirit
blimey there is an opportunity to up our sales to the Saudis as the Americans are pulling out of the market
I wonder what Maggie thinks of this mess......
She was bang on the money, mounting indebtedness in the Southern European countries to Germany to keep the Euro going is what will bring down the Euro.
Thank God we didn’t join the Euro.
That by no means isn't the only view she had and sounds like justification for leaving the ERM to me. No choice due to GBP trading which has caused us grief before.
Her view actually was change it but don't leave it. Main complaints were on things like the agricultural policy. That is understandable in some way due to a belief that's say if you can't compete in some market get out of it. Food though - I wonder.
Closer political union has always been a touchy point. The ultimate, an EU senate is a rather big step. People would still get elected as they do in the USA. So it finished up with a funny EU parliament that isn't one thing or the other. Brexit timing arranged for when it was the UK's turn to run it - not that this position does actually run it. It would have made good press for remain though.
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Me too. My house in France is worth at least 40% more, ignoring all other influences, by the time I convert my assets in euros back to pounds, if I ever wanted to, or for my heirs.
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