does it need paperwork?

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One I'm not involved with and will not be.

A local Hall has had its 5 year inspection recently and the admin have compared with the previous, as they always do. An additional socket has appeared on a 20A radial. To put this into perspective there has been a pair of metal clad DSSO above a kitchen worktop and originally a DP switch [may have been SFCU but I don't recall] to isolate them, however the fridge... so the switch was replaced with choc bloc and a blanking plate.

Someone has replaced the blank with a metal clad SSSO, I reckon about 2 years ago.

As it happens it's assumed the replacement was done by the electrician son of one of the regular users but this has not been confirmed AFAIA.

Admins concern is not that the socket has been added, it's that there is no paperwork by an unknown person.
 
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Admins concern is not that the socket has been added, it's that there is no paperwork by an unknown person.
As far as BS7671 is concerned, any electrical work theoretically should be documented on an EIC or Minor Works cert - although anyone can complete such documents.

Kind Regards, John
 
As far as BS7671 is concerned, any electrical work theoretically should be documented on an EIC or Minor Works cert - although anyone can complete such documents.

Kind Regards, John
And would that include removing the original switch?
 
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Strictly speaking, yes.

Kind Regards, John
But replacing an accessory does not. ie switch for a dimmer.

And I believe there are other exemptions, such as extending an existing circuit. Or have I completely misunderstood this?
 
But replacing an accessory does not. ie switch for a dimmer.
Who said? (see quote from BS7671 below)
And I believe there are other exemptions, such as extending an existing circuit. Or have I completely misunderstood this?
I'm not sure where (if) this is all specified explicitly but, as I have said, my understanding has always been that, strictly speaking, ANY electrical work should be documented by an EIC or Minor Works cert (as appropriate). The notes accompanying the sample Minor Works cert in Appendix 6 of BS7671 includes the following. In view of what you suggest above, note the mention, as examples of where such a cert should be used, of adding sockets or lighting points to existing circuits, relocation of a light switch, replacement of accessories etc. ...
Appendix 6 of BS7671:2018 said:
The Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate is intended to be used for additions and alterations to an installation that do not extend to the provision of a new circuit. Examples include the addition of socket-outlets or lighting points to an existing circuit, the relocation of a light switch etc. This Certificate may also be used for the replacement of equipment such as accessories or luminaires, .....

Kind Regards, John
 
Who said? (see quote from BS7671 below)
I'm not sure where (if) this is all specified explicitly but, as I have said, my understanding has always been that, strictly speaking, ANY electrical work should be documented by an EIC or Minor Works cert (as appropriate). The notes accompanying the sample Minor Works cert in Appendix 6 of BS7671 includes the following. In view of what you suggest above, note the mention, as examples of where such a cert should be used, of adding sockets or lighting points to existing circuits, relocation of a light switch, replacement of accessories etc. ...

Appendix 6 of BS7671:2018 said:


The Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate is intended to be used for additions and alterations to an
installation that do not extend to the provision of a new circuit. Examples include the addition of socket-outlets or lighting points to an existing circuit, the relocation of a light switch etc. This Certificate may also be used for the replacement of equipment such as accessories or luminaires, .....


Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/does-it-need-paperwork.569062/#ixzz6s3UPF2Xy
Kind Regards, John
Sort or a grey area, Your property ok, but a rented or MHO, then no.
EDIT HMO

Thanks for these.
 
Sort or a grey area, Your property ok, but a rented or MHO, then no. ... EDIT HMO
As I've just written, I think that, strictly speaking, as far as BS7671 is concerned certificates are needed for any electrical work even in relation to one's own home (after all, apart from anything else, it may not always be one's home) - but, of course, in practice ..... !!

Kind Regards, John
 
John

I strongly disagree.

The bit you quoted from 7671 said "may" in relation to using MWCs to document an accessory change.

Not "should" or "must".
 
John ... I strongly disagree. .... The bit you quoted from 7671 said "may" in relation to using MWCs to document an accessory change. .... Not "should" or "must".
As far as forms are concerned, there is no "must" about using any particular forms for EICs, Minor Works certs or EICRs - those in Appendix 6 of BS7671 are merely 'examples'.

However, quite apart from that, "may" only appears in the last sentence (relating to "replacement of equipment such as accessories or luminaires"). In relation to all of types of work it mentions, it says that the form "is intended for...".

However, as I said, I'm not sure that BS7671 itself says anything about if/when certificates are required, so I quoted what is said in an ('informative') Appendix as being all I'd managed to find which indirectly related to that issue. However, although it indicates what the example form "may" be used for, or "is inetended" to be used for, that, in itself does not tell us if/when BS7671 requires a cert at all.

However, one might be inclined to infer that it would not be saying that the form "may" be used in relation to replacement of accessories or luminaires if BS7671 did not actually require such work to be certified (on any form), couldn't one?

Kind Regards, John
 
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