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does it need paperwork?

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by SUNRAY, 14 Apr 2021.

  1. SUNRAY

    SUNRAY

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    One I'm not involved with and will not be.

    A local Hall has had its 5 year inspection recently and the admin have compared with the previous, as they always do. An additional socket has appeared on a 20A radial. To put this into perspective there has been a pair of metal clad DSSO above a kitchen worktop and originally a DP switch [may have been SFCU but I don't recall] to isolate them, however the fridge... so the switch was replaced with choc bloc and a blanking plate.

    Someone has replaced the blank with a metal clad SSSO, I reckon about 2 years ago.

    As it happens it's assumed the replacement was done by the electrician son of one of the regular users but this has not been confirmed AFAIA.

    Admins concern is not that the socket has been added, it's that there is no paperwork by an unknown person.
     
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  3. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    As far as BS7671 is concerned, any electrical work theoretically should be documented on an EIC or Minor Works cert - although anyone can complete such documents.

    Kind Regards, John
     
  4. SUNRAY

    SUNRAY

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    And would that include removing the original switch?
     
  5. danechip

    danechip

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  6. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Strictly speaking, yes.

    Kind Regards, John
     
  7. SUNRAY

    SUNRAY

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    But replacing an accessory does not. ie switch for a dimmer.

    And I believe there are other exemptions, such as extending an existing circuit. Or have I completely misunderstood this?
     
  8. danechip

    danechip

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    Sort or a grey area, Your property ok, but a rented or MHO, then no.
    EDIT HMO
     
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  10. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Who said? (see quote from BS7671 below)
    I'm not sure where (if) this is all specified explicitly but, as I have said, my understanding has always been that, strictly speaking, ANY electrical work should be documented by an EIC or Minor Works cert (as appropriate). The notes accompanying the sample Minor Works cert in Appendix 6 of BS7671 includes the following. In view of what you suggest above, note the mention, as examples of where such a cert should be used, of adding sockets or lighting points to existing circuits, relocation of a light switch, replacement of accessories etc. ...
    Kind Regards, John
     
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  11. SUNRAY

    SUNRAY

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    Thanks for these.
     
  12. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    As I've just written, I think that, strictly speaking, as far as BS7671 is concerned certificates are needed for any electrical work even in relation to one's own home (after all, apart from anything else, it may not always be one's home) - but, of course, in practice ..... !!

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  13. danechip

    danechip

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    Understood.
     
  14. securespark

    securespark

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    John

    I strongly disagree.

    The bit you quoted from 7671 said "may" in relation to using MWCs to document an accessory change.

    Not "should" or "must".
     
  15. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    As far as forms are concerned, there is no "must" about using any particular forms for EICs, Minor Works certs or EICRs - those in Appendix 6 of BS7671 are merely 'examples'.

    However, quite apart from that, "may" only appears in the last sentence (relating to "replacement of equipment such as accessories or luminaires"). In relation to all of types of work it mentions, it says that the form "is intended for...".

    However, as I said, I'm not sure that BS7671 itself says anything about if/when certificates are required, so I quoted what is said in an ('informative') Appendix as being all I'd managed to find which indirectly related to that issue. However, although it indicates what the example form "may" be used for, or "is inetended" to be used for, that, in itself does not tell us if/when BS7671 requires a cert at all.

    However, one might be inclined to infer that it would not be saying that the form "may" be used in relation to replacement of accessories or luminaires if BS7671 did not actually require such work to be certified (on any form), couldn't one?

    Kind Regards, John
     
    Last edited: 15 Apr 2021
  16. DIYnot Local

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