Question re gas boiler service and 'Safety Record.

[moguk]

On the Gas Safety Record there is a section regarding service and testing.

I have three questions regarding the Inspection section.:
- If the certificate has 'Pass' under the heading 'Flue Visual inspection, but around the flue where it passes through the wall there are clear gaps all the way outside, and it is clearly obvious that these gaps had never been sealed - should it have been 'Passed'.
- If 'Yes' had been inserted into the box under the heading 'Appliance Serviced', but the condition of the chamber and ignition electrodes (not to mention the accumulated dust and debris inside the boiler casing) clearly indicated these had not been cleaned - is it fair to conclude the boiler had not been serviced at the tme of issue of the certificate 8 months ago.
- If the gas meter had not been working (ie the display was blank due to a fault) on the date the inspection/service was purportedly done, would it have been possible for the information shown in the attached image to be available - it has been suggested not in the format shown, if at all.

Your views/comments would be appreciated.

 

[ianmcd]

If the gas meter had not been working (ie the display was blank due to a fault) on the date the inspection/service was purportedly done, would it have been possible for the information shown in the attached image to be available - it has been suggested not in the format shown, if at all.

That figure has absolutely nothing to do with the gas meter, as for the flue yes it could be ticked yes but a AR advice notice should have been issued for the flue not being sealed to the fabric of the building and noted on the CP12 Gas safety Record

 

[FiremanT]

flue gaps should have been picked up, to be fair
What is a "service"? A Landlords gas safety record does not REQUIRE a service. In the true sense of the word, a service entails stripping down, cleaning and sometimes replacing parts. But British Gas dumbed down the whole concept, and reduce it to a combustion check. Many/Most manufacturers now only require a check, followed by a strip down only if the checks show a problem.

By my calculation, if the Co & Co2 figures are correct, the ratio is 0.0007.

Why are you asking? I get from your tone you were not the tenant when the cert was issued?

 

[moguk]

flue gaps should have been picked up, to be fair
What is a "service"? A Landlords gas safety record does not REQUIRE a service. In the true sense of the word, a service entails stripping down, cleaning and sometimes replacing parts. But British Gas dumbed down the whole concept, and reduce it to a combustion check. Many/Most manufacturers now only require a check, followed by a strip down only if the checks show a problem.

By my calculation, if the Co & Co2 figures are correct, the ratio is 0.0007.

Why are you asking? I get from your tone you were not the tenant when the cert was issued?

I take your point about the service, but when we were given a copy of the certificate we were told that a FULL service had been carried out at the time of its issue.

You are right, we were not the owner of the property at the time the certificate was done.
It was done by the previous owners 2 days before completion last august, so we arranged a service.
When the engineer came he pointed out the flue gqp and when he stripped the boiler said it had not been serviced for at least 2 years - probably longer - based on the condition of the internals.
I then asked him to have a quick look at the range cooker (gas) to check it, and he pointed out that there was no sleeve on the gas pipe through the wall, the bayonet connection was not on a backplate and it was only a couple of inches off the floor - but this too appeared on the certificate done for the previous owner, and was passed with no comments.
My solicitor is dealing with the previous oner and their selling agent on a couple of other issues (unrelated) on our behalf, and I was just seeking a second opinion on the gas related issues before deciding whether or not to add them to the list.

 

[Agile]

I agree that the Gas Certificate does not seem to have been done as carefully as many would expect.

I have always considered the sealing of the flue to be quite important but the reality is that it is not always done properly and perhaps 20% of cheaper installations are deficient. But it is not very difficult to correct as long as it is accessible with a ladder.

Because of the charges that Solicitors make I rarely hear of anyone using them for instances like this.

 

[ianmcd]

Because of the charges that Solicitors make I rarely hear of anyone using them for instances like this.

Dont know about England but in Scotland you have 6 days from exchange of contracts to make a claim , minimum claim is £450 the seller pays the solicitors fees not the buyer

 

[Agile]

The sale of property laws are more stringent in Scotland than in England.

It seems very difficult to make any claim against a rogue seller in England.

That is why I always advise a proper check on gas and heating operating in England.

Some sellers are inclined when I point out any problems to just reply "It does not matter we are selling soon". That is why buyers should do proper in depth checks before signing the Contract.

But few get a proper check on the boiler. It will be far worse as heat pumps become more common and with far more costs involved if they are not properly designed or installed.

But the CP12 test is primarily designed to test for the safety of the installation and not for the design or performance. Intended to show that a property is safe for a tenant to live there.

 

[moguk]

The issues the solicitor is dealing with are not related to the gas - and are more serious than just a lack of boiler service and a badly sealed flue.

 

[FiremanT]

I take your point about the service, but when we were given a copy of the certificate we were told that a FULL service had been carried out at the time of its issue.

You are right, we were not the owner of the property at the time the certificate was done.
It was done by the previous owners 2 days before completion last august, so we arranged a service.
When the engineer came he pointed out the flue gqp and when he stripped the boiler said it had not been serviced for at least 2 years - probably longer - based on the condition of the internals.
I then asked him to have a quick look at the range cooker (gas) to check it, and he pointed out that there was no sleeve on the gas pipe through the wall, the bayonet connection was not on a backplate and it was only a couple of inches off the floor - but this too appeared on the certificate done for the previous owner, and was passed with no comments.
My solicitor is dealing with the previous oner and their selling agent on a couple of other issues (unrelated) on our behalf, and I was just seeking a second opinion on the gas related issues before deciding whether or not to add them to the list.

The problem is that, rightly or wrongly, manufacturers will call it a service, if the checks indicated satisfactory combustion. Even BG on their sales literature refer to a “service” by which they mean THEIR version of a service.

Re the cooker: All of the items you mentioned would be classed as “Not to current standards”. (Assuming there was signs of distress or strain to hose) .We do not even have to note them, or even mention them. I choose to do so, in writing,simply to avoid the next guy slagging me off. But that would never happen, would it .

I bet there was no stability bracket or chain? Probably because on a range they are pointless but none the less required.

The last RGI may well have been a £12 British Gas merchant. It is unlikely that he would spend an age removing a range for fear of damaging floor coverings.

Although it was hardly a top notch job, your new guy has presumably properly serviced the boiler and quoted for rectification to cooker?

 

[moguk]

Although it was hardly a top notch job, your new guy has presumably properly serviced the boiler and quoted for rectification to cooker?

You are right - there was no chain.

Yes, my guy serviced the boiler, replacing the ignition electrodes etc while he was at it, and also refitted the cooker including a chain - and didn't charge the earth either.

 

[peweuk]

On the subject of gas certificates, when an engineer issues one, are copies registered with Gas Safe, or is it just the engineer who keeps a copy?

 

[oldbuffer]

One copy for the tenants, one for the landlord and one for the engineer. Print outs of analyzer results usually kept by engineer.

 

[peweuk]

One copy for the tenants, one for the landlord and one for the engineer. Print outs of analyzer results usually kept by engineer.

Thanks for the confirmation.
So if there is no central register of certificate details, how is their issue policed, indeed, is there any obligation on an engineer to issue one (I am thinking about residential customers rather than landlords).

 

[FiremanT]

Thanks for the confirmation.
So if there is no central register of certificate details, how is their issue policed, indeed, is there any obligation on an engineer to issue one (I am thinking about residential customers rather than landlords).

It is not “policed”, except , sort of, by Letting Agents trying to keep on the right side of the law. The only time the absence will be an issue is if there was an incident or a tenant complains to GS over not being supplied a cert

The engineer has no responsibility to issue to the tenant, he passes the certs to the LL / Agent who distributes accordingly. He is supposed to keep copies for 6 (?) years.

 

[peweuk]

I have just found the information shown in the attached on the Gas Safe site.
The implication is that for residential homeowners (not landlords or tenants) there is nor regulation governing the issue of a safety certificate when either installing or servicing gas equipment - is this correct?