Israel under attack

[JP_]

I would say much less acceptable.

why less acceptable? They both want to kill each other, because they have both spent decades building up hatred for each other. The only real difference is, Israel is the one making the rules.

Where is that stated?

The Internet.

Recently:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/21/middleeast/israel-smotrich-palestinians-intl/index.html

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-04-20/debates/FA8242F1-F6CB-4E0E-AC9F-A9F05F8C5E3E/HumanRightsProtectionsPalestinians

Last month, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich triggered international outrage by saying that the Palestinian village of Huwara in the west bank should be “wiped out” following a rampage by Israeli settlers. He also said that the Palestinian people are “an invention” of the past century, and that there is

“no such thing as Palestinians because there’s no such thing as the Palestinian people”.

Older, 1969:

Myths about Palestinians on JSTOR

Kathleen M. Christison, Myths about Palestinians, Foreign Policy, No. 66 (Spring, 1987), pp. 109-127

www.jstor.org

A book:

Sorry! Something went wrong!

Plus many other places over the last 50 years.

 

[denso13]

why less acceptable?

Because Hamas have a stated aim to eradicate Jews, everywhere. Israel have no such claim.

 

[Roy Bloom]

That makes at least two of us then.

Again, Israel try and justify anything they do as "fighting the baddies who wish to destroy us". Hamas need to drop that aim (which is real), and be public about it, call Israel's bluff if you will.

Former Hamas Minister of Culture 'Atallah Abu Al-Subh: "The Jews Are the Most Despicable and Contemptible Nation to Crawl upon the Face of the Earth"

Following are excerpts from a Friday sermon delivered by former Hamas minister of culture 'Atallah Abu Al-Subh, which a...

www.memri.org

VOA is part of the U.S. Agency for Global Media (USAGM), the government agency that oversees all non-military, U.S. international broadcasting. It is funded by the U.S. Congress.

Mission and Values

This webpage includes general information about the Voice of America and a one-minute overview video of VOA.

www.insidevoa.com

Maybe Denso thinks this is a genuine Hamas website.

 

[JP_]

He continued: "Seven million Palestinians outside, enough warming up, you have Jews with you in every place. You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them."

Hamas Official Condemned After Calling on Palestinians to Kill Jews

Fathi Hamad, a member of the movement's top political body, draws outrage from both Israeli and Palestinian officials as well as a U.N. envoy

www.voanews.com

The key difference is, one side has been carrying out the threats on a weekly basis for decades, while they other have managed just a few very well publicised events.

From 2008 till September 2023, 6,407 Palestinians were recorded to have been killed, more than half through missile attacks. During the same period, the UN recorded the death of 308 Israelis in conflict situations.9 Oct 2023

Chart: 6,407 Palestinians and 308 Israelis Killed in Violence in Last 15 Years

So far, there have been over 1,200 fatalities on either side of the border following the latest bout of violence between Israel and Hamas.

thewire.in

As far as the kill count goes, Israel are miles ahead.

The 2023 red bar is already out of date - "Since the war began, the number of dead had exceeded 7,700 people, including 3,000 children, and 19,000 injured." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war


To be clear, I am not on anybody's "side". I want to see peace, freedom and equality. But only regime change in Israel will achieve that, and that is not going to happen. So the likely outcome is that Israel will commit mass genocide and then claim all the land as theirs, all while accusing the Palestinians of being the threat. And anybody criticising them for it will be labelled anti-Jewish / anti-Semite.

 

[denso13]

The Internet.

Some idiots making claims doesn't make it Israel's view. Far from it.

 

[transam]

What I need to know is what people think is a proportionate response to the murder of 1400 civilians on October the 7th ??

 

[Roy Bloom]

Because Hamas have a stated aim to eradicate Jews, everywhere. Israel have no such claim.

According to the Israelis.

 

[denso13]

To be clear, I am not on anybody's "side". I want to see peace, freedom and equality.

Same here.

But only regime change in Israel will achieve that, and that is not going to happen.

There is only one side which has the extermination of the other as its stated aim. It isn't Israel, regime change there won't alter the racist Hamas intentions.

 

[boolie]

the racism is so overt here.

The guys who keep replying with 'hamas, hams, hamas' responses really are embarrassing.

The occupation and oppression of the Palestinians pre-dates Hamas by decades. Hamas are relatively new in this regard. Hamas have no presence in the West Bank even now - yet Palestinians are routinely murdered and their land occupied in the West Bank. The biased and bigoted folk conveniently ignore this - they don't really want to engage with the facts. Their deep entrenched racism is the reason for this.

Of course, any rational person can understand that people who are oppressed and have inferior resources have to resort to more desperate tactics and inevitably will resort to terrorism. Lookup the Warsaw ghetto uprising and countless other uprisings in history.

Also, trying to frame this as a jew vs muslim conflict is also disingenuous. Many Jews support Palestinians and most Zionists are not Jews .

Like I say, no point even engaging with the bigots. They are either blatantly racist or trolls.

 

[Roy Bloom]

What I need to know is what people think is a proportionate response to the murder of 1400 civilians on October the 7th ??

As this is one of your very rare reasonable and sensible comments, I'll respond:
It's a military occupation, accoring to the UN. Israel disputes this, but it's not possible to define it as anything else. It applies equally to the West Bank.
If it's a military occupation there are interntional rules and norm for the occupying power to respect:

The rules of occupation are delineated in various international agreements, primarily the Hague Convention of 1907, the Geneva Conventions of 1949, as well as established state practice. The relevant international conventions, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) Commentaries, and other treaties by military scholars provide guidelines on such topics as rights and duties of the occupying power, protection of civilians, treatment of prisoners of war, coordination of relief efforts, issuance of travel documents, property rights of the populace, handling of cultural and art objects, management of refugees, and other concerns which are very important both before and after the cessation of hostilities. A country that establishes an occupation and violates internationally agreed upon norms runs the risk of censure, criticism, or condemnation. In the current era, the practices of occupations have largely become a part of customary international law, and form a part of the laws of war.

Military occupation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

All of those in bold have been ignored by Israel.

 

[Roy Bloom]

the racist Hamas intentions.

According to Israel.

 

[denso13]

Like I say, no point even engaging with the bigots. They are either blatantly racist or trolls.

Hamas have the stated aim of eradicating all Jews, everywhere. Do you support this?

I've only argued all along that things will never change if this aim stays in place. If it goes then who knows.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Some idiots making claims doesn't make it Israel's view. Far from it.

Israel's, US's and UK's poliitcal opinion does not make it Hamas's views either.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Hamas have the stated aim of eradicating all Jews, everywhere.

According to the IDF website, which is a load of sh1te propaganda.

 

[Londoner2]

the racism is so overt here.

The guys who keep replying with 'hamas, hams, hamas' responses really are embarrassing.

The occupation and oppression of the Palestinians pre-dates Hamas by decades. Hamas are relatively new in this regard. Hamas have no presence in the West Bank even now - yet Palestinians are routinely murdered and their land occupied in the West Bank. The biased and bigoted folk conveniently ignore this - they don't really want to engage with the facts. Their deep entrenched racism is the reason for this.

Of course, any rational person can understand that people who are oppressed and have inferior resources have to resort to more desperate tactics and inevitably will resort to terrorism. Lookup the Warsaw ghetto uprising and countless other uprisings in history.

Also, trying to frame this as a jew vs muslim conflict is also disingenuous. Many Jews support Palestinians and most Zionists are not Jews .

Like I say, no point even engaging with the bigots. They are either blatantly racist or trolls.

They dont even understand Hamas was was aided and even encouraged by Israel in the 1980's as a bulwark against Arafat's PLO and other leftists factions.

Its come back to bite them, once they are 'eradicated' Hamas 2.0 will be created, even more virulent then the first.

Isreal should have implemented a peace plan years ago instead of spending time killing more Palestinians and taking their land.