Downlights/wall lights -3 plate/2 plate??

[bilabonic]

Hi all

Industrial spark by trade and re wiring one of my rentals that I added spots /downlights too.

It’s a mixture of old red/black. New brown/blue with J/Bs fixed in ceiling to get wnatvi want about 10 years ago.

I was 16th Ed.

How are you wiring downlights when there is no perm/switched line like a pendant.

So I have to do it old style 2 plate with supply to switch??

Or are you fitting an accessible WAGO in one downlight amd a switch wire down.

Or or you just doing doing a mixture of both ?

I’ve always gone pendant to pendant wtc. Amd Dripped switch wire down.

Any adobe appreciated and CU with RCBOS/SPD will be fitted/tested by Nappit.

Cheers

 

[flameport]

Loop the supply between all of the switches in T&E, use 3C&E from switch to the light so you have both switched and permanent line at the light fittings.
For downlights take the 3C&E to the first one, then continue in 3C&E to the next and so on.
No JBs required anywhere.

Minimum 25mm boxes for the switches, 35mm is preferable if items like dimmers or ultra flat switches will be used.

 

[morqthana]

Hi all

Industrial spark by trade and desiring one of my rentals that I added spots /downlights too.

It’s a mixture of old red/black. New brown/blue with J/Bs fixed in ceiling to get wnatvi want about 10 years ago.

I was 16th Ed.

How are you wiring downlights when there is no perm/switched line like a pendant.

So I have to do it old style 2 plate with supply to switch??

Or are you fitting an accessible WAGO in one downlight amd a switch wire down.

Or or you just doing doing a mixture of both ?

I’ve always gone pendant to pendant wtc. Amd Dripped switch wire down.

Any adobe appreciated and CU with RCBOS/SPD will be fitted/tested by Nappit.

Cheers

That looks a bit like English.

 

[pete01]

So I have to do it old style 2 plate with supply to switch??

That's how the new sparks do it these days

 

[pete01]

That looks a bit like English.

 

[bilabonic]

Loop the supply between all of the switches in T&E, use 3C&E from switch to the light so you have both switched and permanent line at the light fittings.
For downlights take the 3C&E to the first one, then continue in 3C&E to the next and so on.
No JBs required anywhere.

Minimum 25mm boxes for the switches, 35mm is preferable if items like dimmers or ultra flat switches will be used.

Why use 3 core to the rest he the downlights when they are just added in parallel ?

Plus I would also have to run a 2 core from switch to other pendants.

Only 3 rooms downstairs have downlights and wall lights.
Kitchen. Toilet. Utility room. Small er utility room. These would them be fed from one switch with 2 core and drop switch wires.

So I can run old style Perm L and switched L to rooms with spots/wall lights.
Then other rooms don’t as normal work 2cire to pendants and drop switch wire down. ??

Just seems weird to have a mix of of both.

Thanks mate.

 

[flameport]

Why use 3 core to the rest he the downlights when they are just added in parallel ?

Allows the use of smart bulbs, fans or adding other items like a smoke alarm at a later time, as you have both L and SL at all locations.
It's additional flexibility for the years and decades ahead for a tiny extra cost.

If looping the supply at a ceiling rose, the cable to the switch should also be 3C&E so you get a neutral at the switch position, which allows things requiring a neutral to be installed there such as smart switches, movement detectors etc.
That is suggested in BS7671:

 

[bilabonic]

Just a a mate who is a domestic spark and he just runs 2 core (his feeds) from switch to switch.

So he just has a perm L+N at each switch and feeds to whatever is required eg downlights/wall lights etc.

So even his 3 plate roses just have a Switched and perm N.

No need for JBs anywhere. Just switch the L at the switches.

Only problem I can see is the switch boxes getting crowded with-
Feed in switch
Feed out switch
Feed downlights
Feed wall lights.
(Plus in hallway an intermediate).

So 5 cables but again this would only be 1mm.

But a deeper 45mm I suppose would negate this.

Cheers.

 

[sparkwright]

All depends how much damage you want to do to your walls.
If you don't want to chase your walls, and can re-use existing wiring and old conduits, then use three plate wiring with a junction box above one of the downlighters.
No reason why a system can't be a combination of 'feed the switch' wiring, 'junction box wiring, and 'loop in at the rose'.

 

[ebee]

Allows the use of smart bulbs, fans or adding other items like a smoke alarm at a later time, as you have both L and SL at all locations.
It's additional flexibility for the years and decades ahead for a tiny extra cost.

If looping the supply at a ceiling rose, the cable to the switch should also be 3C&E so you get a neutral at the switch position, which allows things requiring a neutral to be installed there such as smart switches, movement detectors etc.
That is suggested in BS7671:

Spot on there Flameport.

I am pretty much a wire to the rose then Feed and Return to switch(es) but I have sometimes looped at the switch.
If I was still on the tools today I would use 3 core & E from say the ceiling rose to switch rather than & T & E, then both disciplines can be accommodated.

 

[SUNRAY]

I've noticed that 3c&e is being used for all lighting wiring by a local contractor and found it to be very convenient.

 

[ebee]

Around my area there are lots of homes (old terraced houses from when "cotton was king") and the lighting would have been gas mantles and electricity had not been invented, mine was built around 1910. Then some starting being built with electric lighting and one or two single sockets per dwelling if you were lucky so 1 per home or 2 per home if you had a common 2 up 2 down and maybe/maybe not an outkitchen.
Lighting wiring was done in singles pulled thru light metal conduit and accordingly L was in/out from the Com terminal of each switch in turn and N was linked in from rose to rose then a SL from switch to rose , not an earth in sight except perhaps to the conduit.
Later on the L an N were taken to each rose and an E if you were lucky.
The later addition of LNE to the rose then dropping down of L feed and L return to a switch (or switches if 2way switching intended as L feed to one switch and L return to the other switched and strappers added between the two - still all in singles inside the conduit).

It was quite a while before T & E became popular and single and E was largely used too.
When 3C & E started to be used more between 2 way switches the old connection method was largely use by contractors therefore a connector block for the third core of the 3C&E of one switch to "mimic" the older singles method of wiring.
There was plenty of interference for "hearing aid loops" in lots of rooms in all of the above.
It is only "relatively recent" in my own working life for at least dome of the LNE loop in and loop out to the switches rather than to the roses and I reckon the switch loop in method is still in the minority overall but more present than it used to be.
Both methods of loop in can have advantages and disadvantages by comparison so perhaps accommodating both systems might be the most prudent course of action.
That`s why if I was still on the tools day I would probably accommodate that way in every new build or rewire.