Advice for new boiler in 3rd floor flat - scaffolding really needed?

[ReadingGuy]

My 20 year old boiler is on its last legs, so am looking at replacing it. However I’m in a 3rd floor flat with a flue which goes out of the wall by a window. The boiler is by the wall so the flue is quite short.

(I meant to post a photo but I don’t seem to have one, so I will post one tomorrow when it is a bit lighter!)

Through some very preliminary research, every online quote I’ve looked at so far has suggested I’d need scaffolding as I’m on the 3rd floor. If this is 100% needed, I’ll have to suck it up. But I’ve also been reading online that this isn’t necessarily the case. I’ve read that there are flues that don’t need any external access, and can just push through and self seal.

Is this actually a thing? And do they truly not need any outside access?

And should I just speak to local installer to look at options? I’m not really sure why the usual suspects (Boxt, BG) don’t suggest or offer it.

Also, would a cherry picker suffice if scaffolding is needed? As getting scaffolding will be an absolute nightmare due to it needing to go over some parking spaces.

 

[23vc]

Just speak to local installers, vast majority of the time it wouldn’t be needed

 

[ReadingGuy]

Thanks @23vc!

 

[CountryFan]

I’ve read that there are flues that don’t need any external access, and can just push through and self seal.

Where have you read this please?

Is this actually a thing? And do they truly not need any outside access?

Except to seal to the fabric of the building and fit a weather collar

And should I just speak to local installer to look at options?

Yes

I’m not really sure why the usual suspects (BG) don’t suggest or offer it.

These will as most large firms are about safety of employees

Also, would a cherry picker suffice if scaffolding is needed? As getting scaffolding will be an absolute nightmare due to it needing to go over some parking spaces.

Might be an option along with long ladders as another option

 

[ReadingGuy]

Thanks @Stuckinarut. I’ve possibly misunderstood but I think these ‘self seal’ (somehow?).

I did find it on a forum which I’ll try and dig out but this is one of the products it linked to:

Baxi Multifit 420mm - 690mm Internal Fit Telescopic Flue Kit - Mr Central Heating

Buy The Baxi Multifit 420mm - 690mm Internal Fit Telescopic Flue Kit At Mr Central Heating

www.mrcentralheating.co.uk

It says:

• Internal Fit: Can be installed by a single person from inside the property—no need for external access.

But possible I’ve misunderstood.

 

[CountryFan]

Thanks @Stuckinarut. I’ve possibly misunderstood but I think these ‘self seal’ (somehow?).

I did find it on a forum which I’ll try and dig out but this is one of the products it linked to:

Baxi Multifit 420mm - 690mm Internal Fit Telescopic Flue Kit - Mr Central Heating

Buy The Baxi Multifit 420mm - 690mm Internal Fit Telescopic Flue Kit At Mr Central Heating

www.mrcentralheating.co.uk

It says:

• Internal Fit: Can be installed by a single person from inside the property—no need for external access.

But possible I’ve misunderstood.

No, you’ve not misunderstood, probably just my interpretation of a gas safe technical bulletin. If that sounds acceptable, then should be ok. @gas112 is the man for Baxi and often regs.

 

[gas112]

Yep baxi do an internal fit flue and so do some others i think .
.
This is one other thing that needs checking .

Boiler flues in high-rise buildings - Registered Gas Engineer

In June 2018, the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG) consulted on banning combustible materials within any space forming part of

registeredgasengineer.co.uk

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Wouldn't it need external access to remove the old flue at least?

Scaffolding isn't that big a deal. It probably costs less than a cherry picker plus it will be there for at least a few days so the timing is less critical - e.g. if the plumber is delayed for whatever random reason.

 

[^woody^]

Yes models are available that have internally fitted flues. They slide out, a flange opens like an umbrella and then the pipe is pulled back to form the external seal. Gaps are made good internally.

These are common on high-rise projects, but not all manufacturers make these. Some installers are tied to certain suppliers, who may not produce or recommend this type of flue.

These may not be suitable when things like plume management or deflectors are needed. And the external must be able to be properly checked to confirm that the wall is properly sealed

There are H&S issues with both scaffolds and cherry pickers - access and suitability, plus uses must be trained - not all fitters are.

 

[endecotp]

Wouldn't it need external access to remove the old flue at least?

I’ve seen this done, they just push the old flue out from the inside so it crashes to the ground or maybe lands on someone’s head and have their assistant catch it.

 

[Deluks]

I’ve seen this done, they just push the old flue out from the inside so it crashes to the ground or maybe lands on someone’s head and have their assistant catch it.

Sounds reminiscent of a scene from Only Flues and Horses

 

[Mottie]

I’m not really sure why the usual suspects (Boxt, BG) don’t suggest or offer it.

BG do. We have our boiler fitted in the loft with the flue on the flank wall of our house. When I had a quote from them to replace it in 2017, there was a standard fee of £600 for either scaffolding or a tower - just to fit the sealing ring on the boiler flue! In the end, I had my boiler fitted by an independent fitter who was up and down the ladder in less than 10 minutes and the whole job for fitting the boiler came to less than what BG wanted for the scaffolding. BG wanted £3.5k to supply and fit a Vaillant 418 pure, independent charged me £1650 to supply a Vaillant 418 plus. Get some quotes from independents.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I’ve seen this done, they just push the old flue out from the inside so it crashes to the ground or maybe lands on someone’s head and have their assistant catch it.

Sounds likely to leave behind a bit of trim and/or sealant. What then?

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

BG do. We have our boiler fitted in the loft with the flue on the flank wall of our house. When I had a quote from them to replace it in 2017, there was a standard fee of £600 for either scaffolding or a tower - just to fit the sealing ring on the boiler flue! In the end, I had my boiler fitted by an independent fitter who was up and down the ladder in less than 10 minutes and the whole job for fitting the boiler came to less than what BG wanted for the scaffolding. BG wanted £3.5k to supply and fit a Vaillant 418 pure, independent charged me £1650 to supply a Vaillant 418 plus. Get some quotes from independents.

It's the 3rd Floor, i.e. floor no 4 if you include the ground floor. That's about 10m up, assuming it's near the top of that wall. If ladders that high exist then nobody right in their head would go up the thing.

Actually scaffolding could be pretty expensive for that sort of height. So the insert-o-matic umbrella thing could be a less perfect but much cheaper option. It does seem crazy to spend hours putting up scaffold for 5 minutes' work.

 

[endecotp]

Sounds likely to leave behind a bit of trim and/or sealant. What then?

Installer doesn’t care about that.