Willis Heating System

John - you seem to be forgetting the fact that other people have very different needs to yourself.
I must say I would have thought that my household was very 'typical' as regards 'needs' for hot water, but that's not really relevant.
I am not a salesman, attempting to sell you a Willis system, I am simply pointing out the differences to what you have, and potential advantages. With that, I will leave the thread, as it is becoming simply repetitive.
You surely must realise that my interest is not in relation to my own use but, rather, an academic/intellectual interest in trying to understand the workings of this system, and to understand why a system which was invented a long time ago, and which has some 'champions' (who believe that it offers 'clear advantages'), has been taken up by such a minute proportion of the world's population.

However, you may be pleased to know that, although it is nothing to do with the technicalities of the system (i.e. 'how/why it works and behaves), I think that I may have accidentally 'seen the light' as regards this discussion, in realising that there is some serious 'chalk and cheese' involved. It didn't 'sink in' at the time, but, on reflection, what I wrote in a recent post (coupled with a link that EFLI recently posted) has made me suddenly 'see this light'.

Throughout this discussion, I have been thinking as someone who has bought into the concept of using 'stored hot water' and therefore rarely, if ever, has a need for 'newly heated water'. However, the link recently posted by EFLI reminds me what this is all about, when it says:
Typical use time: > Shower: 10 minutes, > Dish Washing: 5 minutes, > Hair Washing: 5 minutes ....
So, for a shower (typical requirement – 35 litres @ 40°C), the Economiser will heat only the top 35 litres of the cylinder in about 10 minutes, and the unit should then be switched off.
For maximum efficiency, we recommend that the Economiser be fitted in conjunction with a timer (such as the ELEMEX T1). This will ensure that the heater is switched off after the required time. You can then set it and forget it.
So, this system is being aimed at people who have totally abandoned the concept of using stored hot water but, rather, want to heat up (from cold) just the amount of water they need for each task (be it a shower, washing up, hair washing, simple hand washing or whatever). That requires them to anticipate their need to undertake each of the tasks by setting a timer for the requisite heating time (or trying to remember when to switch it off) and then waiting that amount of time before they can undertake the task. I could do essentially the same with immersions (albeit, as you have pointed out, slightly less efficiently/quickly, because of a little mixing of heated water with cold) but there is absolutely no way that I would want such tedium and disruption in my life.

I would therefore suggest that anyone contemplating a Willis system should instead seriously consider perhaosspending their money on some decent insulation for their DHW cylinder. They would then (like I do) always have essentially unlimited amounts of immediately available hot water, immediately enough for anything (including a bath, should they choose to take one) without any hassle or need to anticipate how much hot water they would next need, and when - and if their primary/only water heating were by electricity, then they might also be able reduce costs by taking advantage of tariffs with 'off-peak' periods.
 
I would therefore suggest that anyone contemplating a Willis system should instead seriously consider perhaosspending their money on some decent insulation for their DHW cylinder. They would then (like I do) always have essentially unlimited amounts of immediately available hot water, immediately enough for anything (including a bath, should they choose to take one) without any hassle or need to anticipate how much hot water they would next need, and when - and if their primary/only water heating were by electricity, then they might also be able reduce costs by taking advantage of tariffs with 'off-peak' periods.

Basically, horses, for courses!
 
Basically, horses, for courses!
I suppose that's one way of putting it!

[ as an 'aside of detail', to start with ..... Regarding ....​
So, for a shower (typical requirement – 35 litres @ 40°C), the Economiser will heat only the top 35 litres of the cylinder in about 10 minutes ...

... assuming that Physics and Maths are the same in Ireland as elsewhere, by my calculation to heat 35 L of water from, say, 18°C to 40°C would require about 898 Wh, about18 minutes (not 10) with a 3 kW heater and, in practice, the cold supply could well be a fair bit lower than 18°C, so it could take a fair bit more than that. ]​

Having now realised what we're talking about, in some senses, the Willis idea ('abandoning the concept of stored hot water') seems to be a bit of a joke since, at least in terms of 'time', it's no different from or better than real-time instantaneous water heating ....

Working with my figures, if one's cold water is at 18°C and one wants/needs 35 L at 40°C, then (ignoring 'losses') a 100% efficient 3kW heater is going to take about 18 minutes to achieve that, no matter what the 'heating arrangement'. One can either do that in the conventional 'instantaneous heating' fashion, by watching the heated water 'trickle out' painfully slowly for18 minutes, or one can twiddle one's thumbs for 18 minutes whilst waiting for a Willis heater to heat the water and transfer it (with some 'losses') into a cylinder for temporary storage prior to use. Either way, it will be 18 minutes from 'switch-on' to when one's desired amount of heated water has become available. I suppose some people might be happy with that'wait', but I certainly don't see it as an advantage over traditional stored hot water.

In fact, what w're talking about reminds me of my grandparents' hours in my early years. During summer (coa fire with back boiler not in use) when they wanted hot water for washing, washing up or whatever, they had to wait whilst it heated up in a kettle or galvanised bucket on the gas stove!

[Serious question!] Is there perhaps something about the attitudes to life, personalities (perhaps more 'laid back'?) or lifestyles of the Irish which makes them more prepared to sit around waiting for hot water to be created?
 

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