Help with kitchen rewire and heating costs estimate pls

[ericmark]

Oh, I remember an auto electrician, he had a workshop where he would do work like fitting alternators, and also an off-sales where he would sell reconditioned alternators. It was clearly signed up as trade only, but he would sell to anyone.

So guy bought an alternator, which failed, and he brought the vehicle into the workshop, where the alternator was changed, then he was charged labour. The proprietor claimed if the alternator had been fitted in the workshop then guarantee included labour, but if bought over the counter then labour to swap was charged for.

I can understand to some extent why, as over the counter sold at trade price, but fitted sold at retail price, so if you bought an alternator then returned and asked him to fit it, you got the job done cheaper to supply and fit. This was 1980's and things have moved on.

However, I know the problems with faulty new equipment. As tradesmen, we know makes to keep clear of.

 

[Murdochcat]

When customers insisted on supplying materials I put my rate to reflect the hassle it always created.

There’s nothing worse than some smart arse buying parts and not realising how many small things are actually needed

 

[JohnW2]

When customers insisted on supplying materials I put my rate to reflect the hassle it always created. ... There’s nothing worse than some smart arse buying parts and not realising how many small things are actually needed

I can understand that. However, as I recently wrote, it doesn't sound (at least, to me) as if the OP is planning on 'supplying materials' - but, rather, that the electrician will 'supply' them but will allow the OP to pay for them with "no markup".

That sounds pretty reasonable to me, since I'm not sure that it's necessarily reasonable for an electrician to charge more for materials than he/she paid for them (given that they are already charging for their time/labour), is it? If, as you may argue, the 'markup' is to cover the (small) 'risk' the electrician is taking, it could well be that many/most customers would prefer to take that 'risk' themselves (and then pay additionally for replacement installation of faulty parts, should that {occasionally} prove necessary)

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

That sounds like the electrician 'supplying' the materials, doesn't it?

It could be interpreted either way.

 

[flameport]

Get, say, 10 estimates.

Please do NOT do that.

Doing so will waste the time of at least 9 people and if that behaviour is repeated even moderately prices will be massively increased to cover all of that wasted time.
If any trades discover that someone already has 5+ quotes, that person will very likely be labelled as a timewaster and if they do manage to get any more quotes at all, they can expect a substantial amount to be added just because it can be.

 

[JohnW2]

If any trades discover that someone already has 5+ quotes ....

In practice, how would they 'discover' that?

For better or worse, the concept of 'many quotes' seems to be a current fashion - that is surely what all the 'comparison websites' do, on a large scale?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

For better or worse, the concept of 'many quotes' seems to be a current fashion - that is surely what all the 'comparison websites' do, on a large scale?

Yes, but without troubling the vendor.

The other type of site, is one where the client, lists the requirements of the job, and tradesmen interested in doing the job, having read the requirements, offer their quote for the work.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, but without troubling the vendor.

Yes, that's true of the 'comparison websites'

The other type of site, is one where the client, lists the requirements of the job, and tradesmen interested in doing the job, having read the requirements, offer their quote for the work.

A family member of mine did that recently and she ended up with well over a dozen quotes - so, from the point-of-view of 'vendor time/effort' even worse than had she personally approached 10 different tradespeople!

I suppose it's different if one starts off 'not having a clue' about prices, but if I start with a reasonable idea of what sort of ballpark we're talking about, I'll usually just get two or three quotes - but my choice between them will often (probably usually) be mostly influenced by issues other than price.

 

[ebee]

"

Get, say, 10 estimates.

Please do NOT do that.

Actually yes I do agree with Flameport.

It is a supposedly "scientific" way to do so if you do not have the alternative of asking other traders you already trust or say a local authority grants officer etc.

Definately not on websites like Trusted Rogue Trader or Check a Rogue Trader etc etc and not one who states their traders are so good that they actually give a full 12 months guarantee or somesuch absurdity.

 

[Rojomateus]

Just to clarify for everyone.... I am NOT supplying the materials...... the plumber is getting them, giving me the invoice at the end and I will pay him for whatever he has purchased to use on the job. Obviously he may have some left over and that is fine.... As for the length of time he will take he has given me an idea of time length and I am at home so I will just have to trust him.... he also comes with a recommendation from my plumber as well....... it's slightly less than the length of time the other electrician said they will take. The only item I am supplying is the smart heating controls as he cannot get the one I want......

 

[SUNRAY]

"

Please do NOT do that.

Actually yes I do agree with Flameport.

It is a supposedly "scientific" way to do so if you do not have the alternative of asking other traders you already trust or say a local authority grants officer etc.

Definately not on websites like Trusted Rogue Trader or Check a Rogue Trader etc etc and not one who states their traders are so good that they actually give a full 12 months guarantee or somesuch absurdity.

It took me 3 years to get my business removed from the check version for "White Goods Engineer" or something similar which is a genre I have never worked as and the worst of it was they could not tell me how I got on there 5hit3 service due to data protection but did say they purchase blocks of information from a selection of providers, oh and exactly the same profile was also on a directory service which included part of a colour between orange and green in their name.

 

[flameport]

In practice, how would they 'discover' that?

Those obtaining the quotes let it slip that they already have X quotes from others even where X is 'a few'
Very common.

The only two options then are to find out exactly what has been quoted for previously which usually ends with finding that the cheapest one is cheap because it's only covering half of the work required
or to decline to quote because it would be a waste of everyone's time.

 

[JohnW2]

Those obtaining the quotes let it slip that they already have X quotes from others even where X is 'a few' ... Very common.

Fair enough, but it's clear whose "fault" it is in that situation!

Actually, as you may realise from what I've written, I essentially agree with you, and I don't think that even ebee was seriously suggesting that anyone would get 10 or more quotes. However, he was probably right in indicating what would be the ideal 'scientific' approach to such a decision-making process, even if it is inappropriate/impractical. With such exercises, it's perfectly reasonable to discard the 'outliers' of the quotes (e.g. the highest and lowest quotes) - but if one only has three quotes discarding the highest and lowest only leaves one.

As I've said, I would personally usually only get two or three quotes, but I suppose I'm in a much stronger position than many - since I start with a reasonable knowledge of roughly what a job should cost.

I certainly do sympathise with people having to make these decisions, since its actually next-to-impossible. Price alone is clearly not a good/safe basis for a decision and the 'Checkatrade'-like approaches even worse. We all tend to suggest that 'personal recommendation' is the best method, but even that suffers from the fact that most people making the 'recommendations' are in no position to make a judgment about the things that matter most

The only two options then are to find out exactly what has been quoted for previously which usually ends with finding that the cheapest one is cheap because it's only covering half of the work required
or to decline to quote because it would be a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I certainly do sympathise with people having to make these decisions, since its actually next-to-impossible. Price alone is clearly not a good/safe basis for a decision and the 'Checkatrade'-like approaches even worse. We all tend to suggest that 'personal recommendation' is the best method, but even that suffers from the fact that most people making the 'recommendations' are in no position to make a judgment about the things that matter most

Always the best, and certainly the lowest cost option, is DIY for so many jobs.

 

[JohnW2]

Always the best, and certainly the lowest cost option, is DIY for so many jobs.

Very much so, for those of us who can do it - but we were obviously talking about those who are not 'able', and for them the selection of a tradesperson can be very difficult.