Plug in balcony solar UK , just a Lidl question

[JohnW2]

I am not sure the option is still there, the government has declared it will become legal, what we are waiting on, is the requirements to make it legal.

Hmmmm! If it were done and dusted, it would be done and dusted. No matter what governments may 'declare'/promise about their wishes, hopes and intentions, nothing is certain until it happens - not even in terms of the 'IF', let alone the detail.

Just look at what governments have 'declared' about the completion dates for things like 'smart' meter roll-out or HS2 completion (or, indeed, the extent of HS2) or the (very likely not to be achieved) target dates for 'net zero', the end of sales of ICE cars and oil/gas boilers and the end of 'small boats' crossing the English Channel etc. etc. !

Perhaps more to the point, if whatever eventually becomes 'legal' (something probably will) relates to equipment that cannot be plugged in to any existing BS1363 socket, then I really do NOT think it would qualify as "plug-in solar" in the ('portable') sense that most people (including many/most here) seem to be thinking/talking about.

 

[JohnW2]

Plug in solar is possible, no question about that, the question is if it is possible using a standard BS 1363 plug and socket ...

As I've just written, if it cannot be plugged into any existing BS1363 socket, then I really don't think it would qualify as 'plug-in solar' in the sense that most people are thinking of that term.

 

[JohnW2]

My take on bidirectional rcds at this stage is that unless the manufacturer states its bidirectional or its marked as unidirectional it's an unknown quantity

Indeed. Until very recently, I had always assumed that 'traditional' RCDs (without markings) were all 'unidirectional', and that 'bidirectional' was a relatively new-fangled concept which had arisen as a result of electricity export.

However, having just found a number of bog-standrad RCDs (RCCBs) on my shelves which are 20+ (quite possibly 25+) years old, which appear to be about as 'bidirectional' as they could be, I'm definitely coming to wonder whether there ever have been (at least, 'this century') any that were actually 'unilateral'.

As JohnW2 stated ,the test button problem may occur if the rcd is not operational , it can remain in-circuit if not designed to do so

Yes. Even with the additional switched contacts for the test button circuitry (which seems to be what is done to make a device 'bidirectional') there will still be a potential problem with 'lengthy presses of the test button) if (due to being faulty) the device fails to trip when it should - and it would require a fair bit of additional complexity to address that possibility. As I've suggested, it may be felt that since such a device is 'already faulty', and hopefully will be replaced since it did not respond to the test button, that this is not a issue to worry about?

Also the electronics apparently may remain in circuit on the load side after tripping if there's 2 supplies if not designed to do so

Yes, but as I've said, if the device does trip when it is meant to, that is not a problem - since having the electronics permanently powered (for years/decades) is precisely what the devices are used to experiencing in-service.

A possible problem arises if (due to being faulty) the device fails to trip after the electronics has detected a residual current which should result in a trip (since it is not impossible that the electronics uses more current in that situation) -- but, as I have said (unless, I suppose, the devices became much more complex) I find it hard to see how that possibility could be addressed (just as with the 'test button problem'), even in a device said to be 'bidirectional'. If the device does trip when it should, then any residual current will vanish, so that the electronics should return to their 'normal' state (in which being continuously powered is not a problem).

 

[ericmark]

Like a lot of things, plug in solar is here and for all the bleating consumers will just vote with their wallets and it will become defacto regardless of what any trade, supposed safety organisation says.

Yes very well put.

Bernard, thanks, that piece was a very interesting article and brought up some good "food for thought" for us to digest and consider.

What was wrong with my #79 post? At 3:12 on the video he starts to address the islanding problem. At 4:00 in he says inverters will stop when mains is removed, with a compliant inverter, but as, yet we don't have any compliant inverter. The standard only applies to installed inverters, and plug in is not installed.

At 5:00 he hits the real problem, people will break the rules, but since as, yet we have no rules, that is a little pointless.

At 7:00 he tests using two panels with a load, but the worry is not two solar panels, it is where we have 10 solar panels.

7:46 he tests will the RCD work, this test seems valid, and yes the RCD will work.

at 9:34 is the interesting one, 0.5s is very different to 40 mS, the main idea is we don't want 100s of inverters disconnecting when we have a small dip in the voltage due to load on the grid, which could cause a domino effect and the grid failing as 100s or 1000s of inverters all turn off together. So there needs to be a delay.

10:15 he looks at bidirectional. 12:20 he shows to oscilloscope display, where he claims the device trips that fast with a real fault it does not cause a problem, but the real question is if someone is exporting when they test the RCBO with the test button, so in real terms it tells us nothing.

12:45 he does address the problem with overload of a circuit.

14:50 he points out we can buy all sorts which can cause problems. 15:15 he talks about people causing risk without solar, and lack of EICR. And 15:43 he starts on about the wind risk with solar panels or any other product be is a stack of corrugated sheets or a trampoline.

At 17:10 it becomes an advert. By 17:51 he is talking about 2.4 kW.

18:28 he starts advertising again, and talking about battery storage.

By 20:25 he is saying how 2.4 kW can be drawn direct, by 21:25 he is talking about what can be supplied with a proviso that this may change i.e. still in advertisement mode.

He ends with the problem of raising voltages tripping EV chargers.

As I've just written, if it cannot be plugged into any existing BS1363 socket, then I really don't think it would qualify as 'plug-in solar' in the sense that most people are thinking of that term.

I do see your point, but governments love a get out clause.

As it stands, nobody knows. And while we are debating what is allowed, solar panels are being installed.

 

[denso13]

As it stands, nobody knows.

Yes, all we know is that, presently, DIY plug in solar is illegal.