32A Commando plug to BS1363 socket

[austin99]

I have a 32 amp CEE "commando" socket outside the house that I use for charging an EV. Sometimes it would be useful to use it for plug-in gardening devices and also a trickle charger for a motorbike.

I can't seem to find a fly lead adaptor which has a 32 amp commando plug (male) to 13 amp BS1363 / Type G socket (female).

I can find fly leads for 16 amp commando plug to 13 amp BS1363 socket but the 16 amp connector has a smaller diameter than the 32 amp one. I could get a 32 amp to 16 amp fly lead and use that as well but it seems clumsy and I'd would be preferable have just one fly lead.

Any ideas why this type of fly lead doesn't seem to be for sale anywhere? Thanks!

 

[mikehammer69]

They're gadgetry

eBay or similar

 

[pete01]

Make one up?

 

[austin99]

Ok, just found one on ebay. Don't know why I couldn't find it before. Thanks for your help!

 

[plugwash]

Ok, just found one on ebay. Don't know why I couldn't find it before. Thanks for your help!

Be aware that trailing sockets are normally only rated for 13A total.

For this reason, personally if making up such a lead I would use either a single gang trailing socket, or a fused 4 gang.

 

[JohnW2]

Be aware that trailing sockets are normally only rated for 13A total. For this reason, personally if making up such a lead I would use either a single gang trailing socket, or a fused 4 gang.

Good advice. However, being pragmatic, since 2-output 13A adapters without fuses are allowed, a 2-gang trailing lead would be 'no worse' than that.

 

[mikehammer69]

Good advice. However, being pragmatic, since 2-output 13A adapters without fuses are allowed, a 2-gang trailing lead would be 'no worse' than that.

What does that mean you've lost me.?

 

[JohnW2]

What does that mean you've lost me.?

It means that adaptors like this one, without a fuse, are allowed so long as they have no more than two 'outlets' (with three or more outlets, a fuse is required), so that two 13A plugs (each with a 13A fuse) could be plugged into one actual 'socket', theoretically meaning that a total load of up to 26A could be being drawn from the one socket. Exactly the same would be true if one used a 2-outlet trailing socket (without fuse) in the OP's situation -so, if the situation with the adapter is 'allowed', then the OP using a 2-outlet trailing socket would not, electrically, be materially different.

 

[ericmark]

I have a 32 amp CEE "commando" socket outside the house that I use for charging an EV.

Not sure if allowed, although likely the route I would take, I know it needs an isolator, so socket can't be made live unless there is a plug in the socket, but can't see me losing any sleep if it did not fully comply.

Good advice. However, being pragmatic, since 2-output 13A adapters without fuses are allowed, a 2-gang trailing lead would be 'no worse' than that.

OK, we have to stand back and ask, are we worried about the regulations?

In the main, in a garage, non-domestic, we can have 32 amp CEE "commando" sockets which can be used to charge an EV. But once we move outside, then we have to look at the equal potential zone. And we have a whole list of problems we need to overcome.

The main problem is the TN-C-S supply, but this is not easy, so in the main, outdoor equipment is class II, so although we supply an earth to the outlet, in the main that earth is not used.

We could go for a TT arrangement, and for all we know, the whole home could be TT, so the throw up reasons why it can't be done, could be wrong.

I have a TN-C-S supply, and I have a 13 amp socket on my shed, which my son will use to charge his car, the chance of a loss of PEN when my son visits, must be very slim. But my son and I are aware of the danger, and we choose to ignore it.

But to tell a stranger to ignore it, is rather different.

 

[JohnW2]

OK, we have to stand back and ask, are we worried about the regulations?

Well, in this context I'm certainly not particularly 'worried' about anything!

However,as I said, I was merely making the pragmatic point that if 'we' are (electrically) happy with an unfused 2-outlet adaptor, then there's no reason why we should not be equally (electrically) happy with an (unfused) 2-outlet trailing socket, is there? Either of those approaches is BS1363-compliant, hence acceptable to BS7671 - so what could there be to 'worry' about?

 

[ericmark]

I find the whole loss of PEN precisions a bit odd, if we can't have an EV plugged in without loss of PEN detection, then the same should apply to any other class I outside appliance. Be it a patio heater or anything else.

I have never understood why an EV is not made as a class II appliance? But since it is not, using a socket without loss of PEN detection should only be allowed when charging inside the equipotential zone, i.e. inside a garage, if the vehicle is outside, in the main it needs loss of PEN detection. I suppose it could be parked on a slab connected to the homes earth system, but that raises other problems.

 

[JohnW2]

I find the whole loss of PEN precisions a bit odd, if we can't have an EV plugged in without loss of PEN detection, then the same should apply to any other class I outside appliance. Be it a patio heater or anything else.

Interesting point/question. "Loss of PEN detection" has been technologically possible/simple since the very first day that TN-C-S first appeared, but it has clearly never been seen as a significant enough risk to justify 'requiring' such detection/protection in TN-C-S installations. As you go on to say ...

I have never understood why an EV is not made as a class II appliance? ....

Indeed, but maybe we are both 'missing something'? The main change that TN-C-S has introduced is the presence of a large amount of 'touchable metal' outside of the equipotential zone of the building (hence with people quite possibly in contact with true earth as well as that metal) since, other than for that, the vast majority of 'outdoor equipment' (i.e. likely to be used outside of equipotential zone) these days is, indeed, Class II.

However, I'm not at all sure what any of this has got to do with this thread

 

[ericmark]

However, I'm not at all sure what any of this has got to do with this thread

True, I should ask @austin99 is the commando socket fed from a supply with loss of PEN detection.

Loss of PEN detection I suppose was not as important for something used outdoors for a short length of time, but an EV is charged for a long time.

 

[pete01]

How often does loss of PEN happen, hardly ever I'd say.

 

[JohnW2]

How often does loss of PEN happen, hardly ever I'd say.

Indeed - and, probably more to the point, when it (very rarely) occurs, it probably very very rarely presents any significant risks - not the least because it will often be obvious that something is very wrong with the electrical installation, such that most people would probably 'keep away from any thing electrical'

As I just wrote, it would always have been easy enough to create 'lost PEN detection', so the fact that there has never been a requirement for it in TN-C-S installations suggests that 'they' did not believe that the possible consequences of 'lost PEN' represented a significant risk.