Sockets in loft for shower pumps

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Hi,

As per an earlier thread, I have got two shower pumps in my loft which are connected to a standard double 13amp socket. The pumps are rated at 2.1A and 2.4 A respectively.

I talked previously about putting an RCD faceplate on this socket to get round the fact that the socket is fed from a circuit that is not RCD protected.

But I have since realised that the circuit this loft socket is fed from is the immersion heater circuit (via an FCU in the airing cupboard that is spurred off the FCU for the immersion heater). This immersion circuit has a 15amp fuse and so, in theory at least, running the immersion heater and the two showers together would blow the fuse.

So, I now plan to run a new feed up into the loft by spurring off one of the sockets on the upstairs ring main. The bedroom below the loft hatch has two sockets in a stud wall and it looks like it should be fairly easy to run some 2.5mm T+E from the back of one of the bedroom sockets, up through the stud work and into the loft.

Questions that I hope you guys can answer please:

1. Am I right in saying no conduit/trunking is needed in the wall, so long as I run straight up from the socket?

2. And no conduit is needed in the loft - I can just clip to the rafters or joists?

3. The current installation has the pumps plugged into normal 13amp sockets plus an FCU in the airing cupboard, so it is possibly to kill power to the shower pumps without going into the loft. My proposed installation will just have the shower pumps plugged into the 13amp sockets which will be spurred directly off the upstairs ring with no FCU. So my only way to quickly kill power to the pumps is via the consumer unit. Is that a problem?

4. If an FCU is required, does it have to go in the bedroom or in the loft?

5. I am aware that you can only run one spur off any one existing socket. There is no existing spur on the bedroom socket that I plan to use. However, there is a length of earth cable running from this bedroom socket, up inside the wall, into the loft, and then (as far as I can see) connecting up to the bathroom lighting (it's a 1960s house where the original lighting circuits had/have no earth). Leaving aside the rights or wrongs of that, is it still ok for me to run my spur from that bedroom socket? Or does the presence of the earth wire from that socket to the loft mean my spurring allocation for that socket is already used up?

6. Anything else I need to watch out for?

Cheers,
Dave.
 
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you might striggle to pull a cable down the void as it's bound to have noggins about half way up the wall..

your best bet is to tie some string to one of the cables and pull it back up into the loft, then use the string to pull a new cable back down to the socket.. this leaves you with 2 ends up in the loft that you can then put your sockets on and make them part of the ring..
 
IS your immersion in constant use or is it just a back up ?
If the immersion is just used occasionally, I would think there is no need for a new feed.
The RCD sounds like a good idea.
Using plugs to connect the pump - I have the same set up but I have never been sure if this OK or you have to have a fixed connection using fused spurs?
 
you might striggle to pull a cable down the void as it's bound to have noggins about half way up the wall..

Hmm... not sure about that. There must be a fairly easy route because someone has already run that earth cable the same way. And the "wall" is actually part of the roof (we have a very odd asymmetric roof shape)

your best bet is to tie some string to one of the cables and pull it back up into the loft, then use the string to pull a new cable back down to the socket.. this leaves you with 2 ends up in the loft that you can then put your sockets on and make them part of the ring..

Sorry, you've lost me there. Wouldn't that require junction boxes to extend the existing "in" and "out" cables for the bedroom socket so as they reached up to the loft?
 
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IS your immersion in constant use or is it just a back up ?
If the immersion is just used occasionally, I would think there is no need for a new feed.

Just a backup. But at times when we have got people staying, it would be nice if we could run the immersion whilst the shower(s) was being used, so as to keep the hot water topped up for the next person.
 
It is bad practice, and the on site guide advises against using an immersion supply for anything other than supplying an immersion heater.


I don't see any issue with taking a spur from the upstairs socket, straight to a double socket in the loft.


Is the upstairs ring circuit already RCD protected at your CU?
 
But if you wanted to, you could fit an FCU adjacent to the socket in the bedroom, then run a switched feed from this to a socket in the loft. You could then make the FCU an RCD-protected one, so you would not have to go in the loft to reset.
 
Securespark - I'd prefer NOT to have an FCU in the bedroom if I can get away without it (i.e. in terms of regs).

RF- yes the circuit is RCD protected at the CU.
 
As your ring is already RCD protected, then there is no need for any additional provision of RCD.


There is no need for the FCU in the bedroom, it would just have been more convenient to have the RCD located there if your circuit was not already protected.
 
you wouldn't need to use JB's to extend the ring..

in the drawing below, the left is the existing set up, with the existing cables shown in red..

the right is the new set up with the extra socket /addition to the ring in the loft, with the old cables in red, and the new leg in blue..

ringext.JPG


you may have to add an extra socket in a convenient location where the existing leg reaches, but an extra socket comes in handy now and then...
 

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