1-10V dimming

[ccam108]

If you have read my other thread, you will know that we are getting new lighting in the main hall of our church. I am there now. They are now installed and brighter than the sun! There are 1-10V dimmer lines (T&E) run to the back of the hall and I am trying to control them now. However I am running into a few snags.

When I short L&N, the fitting dims to almost off. When I connect to the dimmer L to +10V and N to 0V, nothing happens when I dim - the fitting stays full on. Swapping polarity (N to +10V and L to 0v) the fitting dims to almost off again. Again the dimmer takes no effect.

Various other combinations of L, N and E do nothing at all.

Anyone got any ideas. The fittings are definately dimmable - clicky.

Thanks

Colin C

 

[333rocky333]

Not sure what you have, but the 10 volts go on seperate terminals normally .

Not the L and N thats usually the 240v supply

 

[ccam108]

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

When I say L, N and E I mean the cores of the T&E that has been used to run from the dimmer to the fitting's dimmer inputs.

There is a completely seperate mains supply from the (now un-taped) wall switches.

Nothing I am touching is mains live, simply control signals.

Colin C

EDIT: Will add photos when I get home.

 

[Lectrician]

You have linked to the lights, but not the most important info - the dimmer pack and dimmer modules

Can't really help with out further info.

 

[bernardgreen]

I believe you need will to apply a variable voltage between 1volt and 10 volts to the control pair, 1 volt will be dim, 5.5 volts will be mid bright and 10 volts fully bright.

But you need to find out EXACTLY what control method is used. You might damage the dimmers by experiementing

A 1-10 Volt control might require the controller to be the voltage source or it might be set up that the dimmer provides voltage 10 volts on two wires and the control uses a potentiometer to return a voltage.

 

[ccam108]

Lectrician, no dimmer pack - conrol circuitry is in the lights - they take a pair labelled 1-10V (+) and 1-10V (-) or something like that.

Controller is a Pulsar unit I have which outputs 0V when the fader is down and 10V when the fader is up. Simple as that.

bernardgreen, controller must be voltage source (which it is) which provides between 0 and 10V on two wires. This is what the light fitting takes.

Colin C

 

[timtheenchanter]

what dimmers do you have?

some work 0 +10V, some 0 -10V, thats the reference voltage for the triac.

try over at www.blue-room.org.uk they have lots of guys on there familiar with +/-10V control, as used in theatre (older stuff)

looking at your previous post, the lighting looks like you have dimmer packs/racks somwhere.

using a standard dimmer will do nothing, a suitable potentiometer would work, but what value, I have no idea.

damn beaten to it, blue room still stand though

 

[333rocky333]

Some systems default on, if no volts.

0 volts out, lights full on
10 volts out, lights dim too off

Can you check the dimmer output volts. to see if it varies.

 

[ccam108]

No dimmer packs, just flourescent fittings with dimmable ballasts and a controller.

Controller definately outputs the correct voltage.

Colin C

 

[333rocky333]

Controller definately outputs the correct voltage.

Colin C

But are you getting the varying voltages in between the 0 and 10

 

[ccam108]

Controller definately outputs the correct voltage.

Colin C

But are you getting the varying voltages in between the 0 and 10

Yes indedio.

 

[333rocky333]

Then as lectrician says, more details of the dimmer you have and if possible the ballasts in the lights.

 

[AdrianUK]

I think the problem is that the dimmable ballasts in flories (or at least the ones Ive met) dont work with a 0-10V in the same way that a dimmer pack does.

The 0-10V connection on the ballast DOESNT expect or want a 0-10V input. What is required is a variable reistor between the '10V' terminal to the '0' terminal to pull it down. The unit provides its own power supply and dims in proportion to the current drawn between the terminals. It wont work with an anaolgue lighting desk.

ccam108 - I hop that your contractors havent sold you this system on the basis that you can drive it using your PULSAR (or nay other 0-10V based desk) because you CANT.

 

[ColJack]

as the technical info page says that it is available in digital, analogue and switch dimming, we'll need the model number..

when you say "When I short L&N, the fitting dims to almost off. ".. do you mean that it does it gradually?

it might indicate that it is a switch dimmable version ..

 

[flameport]

AdrianUK is correct.
The lights you have will contain 1-10v ballasts which require a current sink to operate. (a resistor, or more usually an electronic control unit)
A typical lighting desk will be 0-10v and provides a variable voltage output (i.e. a current source).

The two systems are completely incompatible.

The results you are getting suggest the lights are working correctly - shorting the control wires will drop the voltage, so minimum brightness. Connecting the lighting desk in reverse will turn it into a current sink (due to the reversed polarity) and again drop the voltage to almost nothing. Doing that might also cause damage to the lights, desk or both, so don't try that again.

Your only solution is to buy a new controller for the lights.