13amp sockets on lighting circuits.

[SUNRAY]

Not electric but just as hot; we used to set fire to stuff in the living room.

I do not recall ever seeing a warning label. We just seemed to know not to touch it.

That's a very valid point, But we did tend to put a guard across it.

On that point as a BT apprentice I went into a house and there was half a railway sleeper on round logs with the end of it burning in the fireplace, the occupant said this saved having to cut them up into wire wood. all they did was roll it in a bit as it burned.
They had more guts than me but it did seem it was only the extreme end smouldering.

 

[EFLImpudence]

That's a very valid point, But we did tend to put a guard across it.

Wusses.

 

[foxhole]

JohnW2 wrote:
"Having said that, in this particular context he is probably doing no worse than you often do - 'worrying' about (and hence describing it as a 'bad practice') a theoretical hazard of extremely low probability. I'm sure it's extremely unlikely that someone would come to serious harm as a result of being 'plunged into darkness' in a roof space as a result of plugging some high power device into a 13A socket on a 6A lighting circuit - but, as you might yourself argue in relation to comparable situations, it's not actually impossible that such harm could arise."

Being plunged into darkness in a roof space is frightening and dangerous. Most roof spaces have no boards, just bare joists. In total darkness how do you negotiate them?

Most roof spaces have boards if there is a need for it to be fitted with lighting.

 

[sparkwright]

Most roof spaces have boards if there is a need for it to be fitted with lighting.

I disagree.

 

[foxhole]

I disagree.

You are welcome too

 

[SUNRAY]

Most roof spaces have boards if there is a need for it to be fitted with lighting.

Quite honestly I don't recall the last time I worked in a boarded loft so let's say 20 years ago.
In the mean time I've probably averaged 10 lofts per year at 50:50 ish with fitted lighting.

 

[JohnW2]

Not electric but just as hot; we used to set fire to stuff in the living room. I do not recall ever seeing a warning label. We just seemed to know not to touch it.

Quite so - as I said (and it was equally true of non-electric things which got very hot) ...

... (and, in the vast majority of cases, treated with the respect they deserved and so, at least electrically, fairly 'safe' in use). ...

Kind Regards, John

 

[foxhole]

Quite honestly I don't recall the last time I worked in a boarded loft so let's say 20 years ago.
In the mean time I've probably averaged 10 lofts per year at 50:50 ish with fitted lighting.

Only been in one unboarded loft with lighting and that was to board it .

 

[SUNRAY]

Only been in one unboarded loft with lighting and that was to board it .

Our experiences obviously differ

 

[SUNRAY]

Of course... the solution is simple...

Fit fused sockets and 3A fuse.

I did this a while back, replaced 1G 5A socket on a lighting circuit to power several IT things and used:https://www.wickes.co.uk/MK-13-Amp-Double-Pole-Fused-Triple-Switched-Socket---White/p/195084

yes I'm aware of tripping times

 

[JohnW2]

Of course... the solution is simple... Fit fused sockets and 3A fuse ... I did this a while back, replaced 1G 5A socket on a lighting circuit to power several IT things and used:https://www.wickes.co.uk/MK-13-Amp-Double-Pole-Fused-Triple-Switched-Socket---White/p/195084

Yes, but other than triple ones such as you mention, where are you going to find fused 13A sockets?

Kind Regards,

 

[SUNRAY]

Yes, but other than triple ones such as you mention, where are you going to find fused 13A sockets?

Kind Regards,

I've only offered a suggestion, not a catchall solution.

The thought suddenly struck me that I did that conversion, matbe 10 years or more ago.

 

[JohnW2]

I've only offered a suggestion, not a catchall solution.

I've never really understood the reason for triple sockets being fused. In general, there's obviously no point in have fused 13A sockets, since the plug(s) will each have a fuse, so the only possible point is to limit the total load served by the one accessory. However, I'm not sure that makes all that much sense, given that the innards of them look more than man enough to carry 3 x 13A). Also, of course, two (or more!) double sockets literally side-by-side would obviously not have any such 'additional fusing'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[plugwash]

IIRC BS1363 only requires double sockets to be tested with a total of 20A (I think it's 14A in one side and 6A in the other) while unfused units with 3 or more sockets have to be tested at a significantly higher current (I forgot what exactly). Adding the fuse gets the manufacturer out of that requirement.

Also IIRC the maximum for an unfused spur used to be 2 singles or 1 double and that was later changed to 1 single or double due to people replacing singles with doubles. So an unfused triple socket would be unsuitable* for feeding from an unfused spur. Including a fuse lets you install it like any other socket.

\* Yes I know the stuff on spurs is technically only guidance nowadays, I don't know if that was always the case.

 

[JohnW2]

IIRC BS1363 only requires double sockets to be tested with a total of 20A (I think it's 14A in one side and 6A in the other) while unfused units with 3 or more sockets have to be tested at a significantly higher current (I forgot what exactly). Adding the fuse gets the manufacturer out of that requirement.

That makes sense. As you say, and as per the table below, in the case of a double socket, the test is done with 14A + 6A going through the two outlets (20A total). In the case of a single socket, the current through the (one) outlet is again 14A, but the required total current in the supply cable remains 20A, so an additional 6A has to be provided external to the accessory, presumably connected to the 'outgoing cable'.

As you also say, in the case of 3 or more outlets, an unfused socket has to be tested with 2 x 14A loads connected to outlets (28A total) - which, as you say, maybe explains why manufacturers put fuses in the triple ones. I'm a little surprised that none of them appeared to have produced an unfused one which could pass the 28A test, but maybe they did not perceive a large enough market to justify the effort..

Also IIRC the maximum for an unfused spur used to be 2 singles or 1 double and that was later changed to 1 single or double due to people replacing singles with doubles. So an unfused triple socket would be unsuitable* for feeding from an unfused spur. Including a fuse lets you install it like any other socket. ... \* Yes I know the stuff on spurs is technically only guidance nowadays, I don't know if that was always the case.

I'm not so sure about that. Even the 'guidance' (at least now) only talks (explicitly) of (one) single or double socket on an unfused spur, so is not even suggesting that an unfused triple one would be acceptable. However, if one installs just one (fused) triple socket, then that presumably counts as a 'fused spur', and hence would be consistent with the 'guidance'.

Kind Regards, John