2 Amp lighting circuit

[journeyman]

Method one does not comply because the total load on a lighting circuit should be known. It can not be known when a BS546 is fitted. You can assume a 0.5A load, but halogen uplighters are likely to be used in such sockets.

Method two is OK because it is not a lighting circuit.

My method is safe and as it does not make a mockery of "The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994"

All appliances come with a BS1363 plug fitted. This law was passed because not many people can safely wire a plug. By fitting BS546 sockets you may be forcing a non competent person to wire a plug. 2A plugs are very small and tricky to wire.

Multiway adapters are hard to find for 2A plugs. They are reasonably easy to find for BS1363 plugs.

Allowing the end user to switch the table lamp, standard lamp or uplighter from a remote switch without rewiring the plug is what I would call refined.
Forcing the user to fit a 2A round pin plug is anything but refind.

I think that my method is the best way of remotely switching portable lighting.

This is just my opinion.

 

[securespark]

Well, Breezer, I MUST be refined, then as I have not one, or two or three, but....wait for it....four just in my lounge!!!!!!

Ner Ner Ne Ner Ner! So there!!!!

 

[il78]

Well, Breezer, I MUST be refined, then as I have not one, or two or three, but....wait for it....four just in my lounge!!!!!!

Ner Ner Ne Ner Ner! So there!!!!

It must be a spark thing....

I've got them all over the house......I hate pendant dangley lights hanging from the ceiling.......

Wired straight off the lighting circuit with 2A lighting points (dont fancy trying to dim the TV & Home Cinema stuff, you never know some-one might try and plug them in to the normal sockets, if fitted as mentioned above)....my house, my method.....

So ner ner ne ner nerrrr......

 

[Millennium_Boy]

I thought that 2a round pin socket setups are hazardous, and they are only mentioned in the IEE OSG, for those who need to repair an existing installation.

Round pin unfused plugs come from a bygone era, and are obsolete.

 

[breezer]

Round pin unfused plugs come from a bygone era, and are obsolete.

' course they are, NOT , how many do you want ? see this

 

[securespark]

Ian

I hate CR's too!! have 2A socks in lounge plus some GU10's in the ceiling.

It's not a spark thing, my Mother's got them, too. Oh, hang on, I think I put them in.....

 

[securespark]

If they are only in the OSG because people may want to repair them, why are they in a table of current demand to be assumed- presumably so that a circuit can be designed prior to installation?????

 

[journeyman]

The "The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994" act was designed to stop the dangers caused by badly wired plugs. The act was mainly aimed at domestiic users.

Since portable luminaires come pre-fitted with a 13A plug, it makes sense to only fit a BS1363 socket in domestic installations.

Why fit a 2A socket when a 13A socket can do the same job!

A circuit should be of good design. Forcing non competent persons to remove a correctly fitted 13A plug and replace it with a 2A plug is bad design.

Therefore 2A sockets should be obsolete for domestic wiring.

 

[il78]

Journey Man

As I mentioned above, my 2A points are switched through a dimmer (like most) and if a normal 13A socket were to be installed you would be creating a load of problems (Agreed?)

I understand what you saying about not every-one is competent in replacing a plug-top, you could even go as far as saying some people are not competent in replacing lamps, where does it end.....learn or pay up....

 

[journeyman]

il78

We will have to agree to disagree.

As I mentioned above, my 2A points are switched through a dimmer (like most) and if a normal 13A socket were to be installed you would be creating a load of problems (Agreed?)

Not agreed.

My method does not involve looping off the lighting circuit. It involves using a switched FCU, or making a dedicated radial circuit, which can be switched with a 20A switch.

Looping from the lighting circuit is bad practice because the load can not be known. there is a possibility of overloading the circuit with 300W halogen uplighters. Using a separately fused circuit for the 2A sockets would be a better solution. At least the house would not be left in the dark in case of an overload. An RCD could also be fitted to this circuit (in case the house rabbit chews the flex), as long as there is fixed lighting; not on an RCD.

I understand what you saying about not every-one is competent in replacing a plug-top, you could even go as far as saying some people are not competent in replacing lamps, where does it end.....learn or pay up....

Some laws are stupid, (Part P could become one of those, though it is yet to be determined), but I think the new law on fitting plugs to appliances at the point of sale is a good idea. It solves a real problem that really has cost lives. Since these plugs will be a BS1363 plug, then it makes sense only to use BS1363 sockets in houses.

Why learn or pay up - when the electrician could have have designed a circuit which requires the user to just plug in the newly purchased uplighter, and switch it off at the switch by the door.

I have described a method of switching portable luminaires in "refined" houses which is compatible with the BS1363 system. The only disadvantage is that fact that the sockets can not be dimmed.

There are solutions to the dimmer problem. Some of these solutions even remove the need for a dedicated portable luminaire circuit entirely.

We will never agree on this, but one thing is certain. The law was changed for a very good reason, to stop people badly wiring plugs. This law has been very successful. Why do things that compromise this?

 

[securespark]

Hmmmmm. Can I chip in here?

I think il is trying to point out the dangers (under your system) of being able to plug in any appliance, including those that are not dimmable. As he says, the 2A outlets are very nearly always used in conjuction with a dimmer - certainly all the 2A outlets I have seen have been switched through a dimmer. You do NOT want somebody plugging in a 13A fan heater then trying to switch it on via a 250/400W dimmer.....

Part of the idea of good design is to try and make an installation foolproof, so that it cannot easily be abused, but in your scenario, this is possible.

If you have dedicated socket outlets, that abuse can be minimised.

Do you also dislike non-standard 13A outlets for the same reason (that the end user would need to change a plugtop)?

 

[journeyman]

Conventional dimmers are not allowed under my system. The system is just a normal radial circuit with a 20A switch or an FCU with some BS1363 sockets connected. So there is no problem with the user plugging in a fan heater. Dimming can be achieved by other means.

2A sockets looped off the local lighting which is dimmed can also be overloaded. The amount of load being connected to the socket could be anything. What if the user thinks that it is a good idea to buy an electric fan and fit a 2A plug to it so that it can be turned on by the dimmer near the door. Also there is the problem of plugging in portable luminaires with built in dimming. You will be dimming a dimmer. How big should the dimmer be?

I used to work in a department store that sold 300W and 500W uplighters with built in dimming. The customers often wanted 2A plugs fitted to them. What if they plugged them into a 2A socket connected to a dimmer?

It is OK to use 2A sockets in your own home, if you know what you are doing and you know the implications, but such a system should not be used to wire up a house or flat that is being used by someone else.

When you sell your home, how do you know what the new owner will do?

With my system it does not matter as long as the user buys appliances pre-fitted with a plug, they can plug it into what they like. They will soon work out that the unswitched sockets are connected to the switch by the door and would be ideal for portable luminaires.

Non standard plugs are great for commercial use. They control what can be plugged into a particular socket. I have no problem with this.

This is just my opinion on how things should be done. What one does in ones own home is fine,, as long as it is safe. But think about what might happen when the house is sold. With my system, any problems are avoided. The worst that can happen is a blown fuse with an FCU or a tripped MCB in the case of a radial circuit.

The only problem is finding a means of dimming, this is quite easy to do with modern technology. It just costs a few quid more.

 

[il78]

Loading can be determined by allowing 100W per point, the same way we work out on ceiling pendants etc......

Yeah, people can put in 300W uplighters in the 2A point, but the same person can replace the lamp for a 150W in pendant or even replace the fitting for 3 or 4 spot type.....the list goes on with what ifs.....

As for overloading the fuse or MCB will work its wonders.....

The RCD would have to be fitted aswell as these 13A sockets could be used to power equipment outdoors.....

The plug-top thing, I agree....but it doesn't completely rule out incompetence.......how many people put 13A fuses in table lamps (in general)........

We could and probably will argue about which is the best method, but each spark to there own.......

 

[journeyman]

We could and probably will argue about which is the best method, but each spark to there own.......

Only, I'm not a spark. I just like a good debate.

lol

I wonder what other people think that the best method is.

 

[il78]

Well your in the right place........

Not a spark...what do you do?