2 amp socket question

[EFLImpudence]

but the point is the socket is rated at 2a,

But my point was - why and is it possible?

how many table lamps are going to be daisy chained together to draw more than 2amps?

That's not the point; ceiling roses are rated at 6A.

the terminals inside the 2a plugs are that small anyone trying to connect standard flex would struggle and would be an idiot anyway,

3A fuse wire has a csa of 0.018mm²
20A - 0.28mm².
As I said, how small can the terminals be?

as why would you restrict an appliance to 1 or 2 outlets in your home?

It is surely to restrict the points at which you can plug in small conductor appliances with no further (lower) protection.

 

[coopersim]

So...... I'm ok to use it unfused?

 

[SimonH2]

but the point is the socket is rated at 2a, how many table lamps are going to be daisy chained together to draw more than 2amps?

Ah that takes me back to my days at Uni. In the old buildings, we had one or two 2A sockets in our rooms - which were off the lighting circuit which wasn't metered, while the 13A sockets were metered. Now you are probably ahead of me here - I had an extension lead with 13A sockets and a 2A plug.

Now, I can't vouch for any of my colleagues, but I knew enough to always stay within the load limits - I evan had a 500W "dunk in your cup" 'kettle'. My lecky bills were "modest"

I do recall that in amongst the "info for new students" we got from various sources was that the 2A plugs could be bought from Woolies - or from last years students selling them on when they moved to rooms without them.

 

[Risteard]

So...... I'm ok to use it unfused?

Of course. Overload protection is not required (how can a luminaire with a 100W or 60W lamp in it overload from the point of view of your 2A rating? It can't.) Fault protection is all that is required and it should be easy to prove that the flex is more than adequate for your device to operate before adverse thermal effects occur.

Not quite sure why this problem with 2A plugs/sockets keeps coming up - it is a nonsense. I installed them in my own house because there is nothing whatsoever wrong with them (and they are far tidier than 5A versions).

 

[JohnW2]

Not quite sure why this problem with 2A plugs/sockets keeps coming up - it is a nonsense.

I think it's because some people are fixated on 'ratings'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Once one decides to ignore ratings where do you stop? There are some times where one does a risk assessment and then decide to break the rules. For example a machine required to save some ones life which is close to the 13A limit and could easy blow the 13A fuse being fitted with the special red medical plugs without a fuse.

But to use same plug on a welding set because you can't be bothered in fitting a 16 or 32 amp plug is wrong.

In the same way as using a 2A plug because it looks a little neater than a 5A plug that to me is wrong it is so easy to have used a 5A in the first place.

Where already wired then using the existing sockets with fused 2A plugs clearly makes sense but again since you can get fused versions that's what you should do not just use a unfused one because a few pence cheaper.

As to neatness I am not convinced that a fused 2A is neater than a unfused 5A they are nearly the same size.

 

[JohnW2]

Once one decides to ignore ratings where do you stop?

I'm not really suggesting that one should, in general, ignore 'ratings', but rather that some common sense should be exercised. I do concede, however, that electricians constrained by employers, insurers or scheme operators may not feel that they are in a position to apply common sense.

As others have said, it is all-but-inconceivable that these '2A' plugs/sockets can only safely carry 2A. The pins are substantial and the terminals at least as large as those seen in, say, ceiling roses and other things.

Kind Regards, John

,

 

[sparkwright]

I too have fitted 2 amp sockets on a 6 amp lighting socket and am satisfied.

Where and how else are you supposed to use 2 amp sockets?

Is this any different to using 5 amp sockets on a 6 or 10 amp lighting circuit?

Bit surprised they still make 2 amp sockets and plugs, since the 5 amp version will do the job, can't think offhand where the 2 amp ones would be more advantageous.

One would never dream of putting a 5 amp socket on a socket circuit primarily designed for 13 amp sockets without going through a fused spur unit - yet it does seem acceptable fitting 2 amp sockets to a 5 or 6 amp lighting circuit.

I wouldn't worry about using 2 amp sockets with fused or unfused plugs on a 5 or 6 amp lighting circuit. You see it done like that very often.

 

[JohnW2]

Where already wired then using the existing sockets with fused 2A plugs clearly makes sense but again since you can get fused versions that's what you should do not just use a unfused one because a few pence cheaper.

Agreed - but, as with any circuits involving sockets, that is beyond the control of the designer or installer. All they can do is specify and install the socket - only the user can determine what is subsequently plugged in, and using what sort of plug.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

One would never dream of putting a 5 amp socket on a socket circuit primarily designed for 13 amp sockets without going through a fused spur unit - yet it does seem acceptable fitting 2 amp sockets to a 5 or 6 amp lighting circuit.

As I've just written, I think the reason why many (most?) people feel that is 'acceptable' is because it seems almost inconceivable that 5A or 6A would do any harm to one of these so-called '2A' plug/socket combinations.

There are obviously many reasons why one would never dream of putting a 5A socket directly on a '13A sockets circuit' - not the least being that, although you call it that, it will usually/often be a 30A or 32A circuit (in terms of OPD). Furthermore, the whole idea of UK sockets circuits (whether rings or radials) is that they are 'fused down' in the plugs - which is the reason why even a 15A socket would not be acceptable on a '13A sockets circuit'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Risteard]

The 2A refers to the load that the plug/socket arrangement can safely carry. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the rating of the protective device, so as I said the only thing to ensure is that the flex supplying the appliance of <= 2A rating is adequate for fault protection.

 

[ericmark]

In the main I use a 2, 5, or 15 amp socket so it's not usable by anyone with an appliance with a 13A plug but still allows it to be moved out of the way. With 15A also use it where not enough free air to cool the fuse in a 13A plug and example is the immersion heater the 15A plug allows a plumber to swap it or remove for maintenance without need for an electrician.

So in a property where 5A were already used then 2A would seem next one on the list but where we have the problem is the standard tungsten bulb should have a built in fuse so if on blowing you get ionisation then the bulbs fuse will blow rather than the fuse for all the lights.

However the B6 MCB needs 30A to open in that short length of time where the 5A fuse needed a lot more so although theroy seemed good in practice it did not work as it should have done when we moved from fuse to MCB.

However it was the fuse built into the bulb which means a 2A BA22d lamp holder can be used with a 6A supply.

So standard lamp with a standard tungsten bulb in theroy should be OK with a 2A socket.

However we have moved on with compact florescent and LED and also halogen not always following the old rule with common bulb so on failing the current can be far higher than 2A for an extended time. I made the mistake with a Ikea 6W CFL on a 16A MCB feeding an outside lamp when it failed the up to 80A was enough to weld the bulb to the bulb holder. Also with bulbs coming from China we have no idea if the fuse is there or not.

Yes common sense where 5A option already used go to 2A but where 5A is still an option why use 2A?

 

[EFLImpudence]

The 2A refers to the load that the plug/socket arrangement can safely carry.

That is what is being discussed.

Are you suggesting any part of it would melt should the load be 3, 4, 5 or 6A?

As I wrote above 20A fuse wire has a csa of 0.28mm².
How can any part of a 2A socket possibly be less than that?

Or - as 1mm² can safely carry 16A (even with the huge tolerances of the regs.) are there any components of a 2A socket which are only an eigth of this (0.125mm²)?

Therefore how (or why) can it only be a 2A socket?

 

[JohnW2]

The 2A refers to the load that the plug/socket arrangement can safely carry.

Indeed so - and since the designer/installer have no control over what load may be plugged in, the only thing limiting how high that current might be is the circuit's OPD....

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the rating of the protective device ...

See above. Since I don't think that anyone really doubts that a '2A' can safely carry at least (undoubtedly well over) 6A, that plug/socket is not really at any risk on a 5A/6A (OPD) circuit, regardless of what load is connected through it. A 2A or 5A plug/socket on a 32A (OPD) circuit might be a different matter, if a large load was plugged in (and the plug not fused).

Kind Regards, John

 

[Astra99]

A slight aside, but the C5 "Cloverleaf" connector is rated at 2.5A, and generally uses 0.75mm cable. I wish I had a £1 coin for every 10A fuse I have removed from the plug of these cables (which have been supplied by IT equipment manufacturers)!!!!!