Advice required please

[imamartian]

I have just agreed to help out at a local school on a project to improve their playground facilities. It'll mainly involve building some planters, making some benches and seats around trees, and making and putting up some large chalkboards.

My question is.... what do i need to consider? what i mean is like insurance, health and safety, rules and regs, council? etc etc

 

[dave.m]

My question is.... what do i need to consider?

Consider doing it after school time when the little 'darlings' are not there.

 

[imamartian]

it'll be weekends, or more likely the school hols....

 

[Symptoms]

martian - unless you're a firm with all the appropriate insurances in-place then don't do it! Imagine the senario - the kids are running around the playground & bump into one of your planters breaking an arm, or the kids are climbing all over your benches and take a tumble, or some kid falls from a tree branch (haven't they cut all the trees down yet?) and clonks his head on a tree seat ... it'll be your ar*e dragged infront of the H&S Gestapo.

Loads of us did stuff for our kid's schools years ago but we now live in very litigious times with parents too ready to blame folks even the smallest scrape to their kids. So unless you've got cover, keep clear.

 

[^woody^]

When you say "help out" is that what you mean - you are helping them out and not doing it as part of a business?

If helping out you are alright. If a business, then you probably have PL cover ( ), and the school should tell you what they require, and not you ask them what they want

In any case, its all common sense.
Use bolts instead of nails - in case things come apart.
Recess bolts or consider using fixings that are hard to undo/get at
Use well prepared timber that wont splinter or split easily.
Design the items to take the extra abuse likely to be given.
Have no sharp points, edges or 'sticky out bits'

Don't be put off by all this H&S or litigation nonsense . Unless you are really bad and the whole thing falls apart, then there will be no issues.

In fact, it would be nice if the kids could get involved some way - design or helping/watching

 

[imamartian]

I'm a decent DIYer.... nothing more. The school is strapped for cash, so are asking for volunteers. We've only met once as a project so it's early days, and i will obviously ask the headmaster these questions in due course.

But what is the difference between one of the kids falling over and hitting their head on, say, one of my benches, the tarmac floor or a tree? Surely the school commission any work and therefore take responsibility for how it performs once complete?

 

[^woody^]

Thats why I said don't worry about all the H&S and litigation nonsense.

In todays claim culture, people are wary of doing anything "in case we get a claim".

In reality, there has to be proven negligence for any claim, and just because someone gets injured, does not mean there was liability.

A properly made planter or bench or whatever will be no risk to anyone.

Don't let any talk of claims or H&S put you off helping a school or anyone out. Go for it.

But if you are worried, the school (well their insurers to be precise) would assume any liability in law

 

[imamartian]

Thanks Woody.

One further point re. something you said. Use well prepared timber? I was planning on using decking joists for the planters, and similarly treated timber for the benches. Would that be appropriate? or could you advise on a particular species of timber?

 

[^woody^]

All I meant was timber not full of shakes or splits that would then tend to split more and splinter, or with a rough unprepared surface.

Deck boards should be fine, as would any treated exterior timber - sanded a bit if necessary.

And you will probably know, but if you chamfer any sharp edges, then it makes them less likely to splinter, or splinter/chip when knocked.

 

[imamartian]

All I meant was timber not full of shakes or splits that would then tend to split more and splinter, or with a rough unprepared surface.

Deck boards should be fine, as would any treated exterior timber - sanded a bit if necessary.

And you will probably know, but if you chamfer any sharp edges, then it makes them less likely to splinter, or splinter/chip when knocked.

Thanks again.

 

[Symptoms]

My 'heart' would will you to get involved but my 'head' continues to say tread carefully.

If the school is under Local Authority control then your proposed activity may well be approved of, if under the aegis of the Parents' Association, with very little or no risk to you (assumes the 'street furniture' is fit for purpose). The PA could, through its National Organisation organise cover.

I am, and have been a School Governor (Secondary) for more than 25 years, so I have some understanding of the issues surrounding this type of involvement.

If the School/LEA is prepared to allow this involvement then just be aware of the potential risks to you. Hence my earlier posting.

 

[Thermo]

weve done work at schools before, no problem. Public liability in place, and as woody says use some common sense. Think from a childs perspective in terms of safety If they are asking for volunteers, then really the onus is on them.

 

[imamartian]

My 'heart' would will you to get involved but my 'head' continues to say tread carefully.

If the school is under Local Authority control then your proposed activity may well be approved of, if under the aegis of the Parents' Association, with very little or no risk to you (assumes the 'street furniture' is fit for purpose). The PA could, through its National Organisation organise cover.

I am, and have been a School Governor (Secondary) for more than 25 years, so I have some understanding of the issues surrounding this type of involvement.

If the School/LEA is prepared to allow this involvement then just be aware of the potential risks to you. Hence my earlier posting.

Interesting stuff... so how does the hierarchy work.. LEA, PA, Governers, headmaster? If i get written support from the headmaster, will that not remove any liability from me, as long as the work is obviously fit for purpose, and of a suitably reasonable standard?

 

[imamartian]

weve done work at schools before, no problem. Public liability in place, and as woody says use some common sense. Think from a childs perspective in terms of safety If they are asking for volunteers, then really the onus is on them.

Would i need to arrange public liability insurance, or would i be covered under the schools insurance?

 

[^woody^]

You only need PL insurance if you are trading.

You will be covered by the schools insurance if 'helping them out'. And in this case there would be no 'you' just the school

This is how the claims business works. Everyone, anyone is liable for their own actions. Any individual can be sued for negligence if they are deemed to have a duty of care to the injured party. But in any claim the claimant will go after those most likely to be able to pay - which in this case is the schools insurers. It is very, very unusual for an individual to be pursued as it does not make commercial sense for the claimant - and that is all its about, a commercial decision based on who can pay and if they are worth chasing

Strictly, the school will assume vicarious liability for you. This is a specific legal concept and means that they become responsible in law for those who they have control over and not just direct employees

You sound like you are very concerned about being liable for something. You've either got to forget it, or you will become a nervous wreck worrying over nothing or maybe's and could do's