air vent type?

[adiwill]

Hi all,

just had a flueless fire fitted.. the installer has done the air brick but we said we'd fit the internal air vent cover as the one he bought with him was huge..

now.. daft question, but is there any type of vent that i CANT use? I noticed that a few of them have written on them 'not to be used for venting a gas/solid fuel appliance' etc etc, and these ones are the ones that have the grill inside them as opposed to open slats.

somthing like these..

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=100139&ts=30401&id=11104


So, it seems a daft coincidence, but is there any reason why i cant use a vent cover with a small grill on it? ie those sliding cover types (obvously we wouldnt close it). Surely theres a reason why you can use them for venting gas aplliances? Is it the grill, or is it the sliding aspect? OR is it becasuse the grill could get blocked with dust etc?



Thanks...

 

[timmy74]

isolate the fire and phone the manufacturers on monday for the correct type vent oh and i'd buy a carbon monoxide detector for that fire while you on

 

[simond]

Vents designed for gas have to be non-closable, ideally carry a printed warning to that effect, and be able to pass a 5mm diameter round ball through the grille holes............ If my memory serves me correctly.

Nasty incident last year with a certain make of flueless gas fire, make sure it has been commissioned properly and the installer has GWN'd it.

 

[simond]

Strictly speaking the installer should not have signed it off until the vent issue was resolved to his satisfaction. How can he be sure you are not going to compromise the installation by fitting the wrong vent?

 

[gas4you]

Vents designed for gas have to be non-closable, ideally carry a printed warning to that effect, and be able to pass a 5mm diameter round ball through the grille holes............ If my memory serves me correctly.

Nasty incident last year with a certain make of flueless gas fire, make sure it has been commissioned properly and the installer has GWN'd it.

As simon says but also noy allowed to have insect grilles on them either. It should be passed to allow a minimum of 100cm2 ventilation.

Good luck with the flueless fire, I would never fit one for a customer if they paid me £1000/hr

 

[doyle]

nice n simple you need a perminent 100cm2 of ventillation, if you get one of those that you have hyperlinked what is the open area of the mesh(around 25/40%) so you would need one as big as your window.

as others have said, it must not be closable must not be meshed or otherwise obstructed and needs to be sleeved type.

as you must be a ecologicaly guy going for a greener solution, you can now benefit from subletting your living room to EON windfarms- home energy recycled. enjoy your new vent im sure youll appreciate it more than a wooden over coat.

 

[adiwill]

okay, so i'm getting bad vibes about the flueless i'm sensing So, does anyone want to eleorate why they dont like them?

anyway, to pick up on the other points.

- Yes, were going to get a carbon monoxide detector.
- The appliance was fitted by a corgi guy, so i'm sure he knows what he's doing, but should some sort of certificate be issued?
- The installer fitted a new airbrick, as he said we needed one. But its not sleeved to the inside?
- We had a flueless for ease of installation due to the wall and chimney type, plus it matched the room. Oh, and its a 'focalpoint aden'.

Anywat, to sum up, i wont get a closeable/grill vent then.. This one instead?
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=100139&ts=30401&id=13616

seeing as it was mentioned we need 100cm2, by my quick calculation this one works out at about 150cm2 external diameter, and looks to be about 60% open, so we should be okay, right?

 

[gas4you]

All proper gas vents will have the free air amount stated on them.

Yes your air brick/vent should be sleeved through the wall, yes you should have got some sort of works certificate stating all tests were ok, gas tightness test passed, air vent/supply ok, burner pressure ok etc etc.

You should also get a certificate from CORGI in the next couple of weeks proving that your installer was/is in fact registered with them.

 

[bripl]

some corgi registered installers do not notify[gwn] as some believe their are data protection issues.as long as he left you some paperwork i would not worry too much as for flueless fires i have never fitted one due to the fact they are dangerous to your health bg do not install or maintain them due to lack of bs.
regarding your vent it must meet certain criteria,from your description it does not so please do not use the fire until you and your corgi have met ALL the criteria in the installation instructions.
these fires can and do kill,do a search and you will find they are banned in some countries sorry to be so negative but most responsible rgi will not touch them.

 

[doyle]

okay, so i'm getting bad vibes about the flueless i'm sensing So, does anyone want to eleorate why they dont like them?

anyway, to pick up on the other points.

- Yes, were going to get a carbon monoxide detector.
- The appliance was fitted by a corgi guy, so i'm sure he knows what he's doing, but should some sort of certificate be issued?
- The installer fitted a new airbrick, as he said we needed one. But its not sleeved to the inside?
- We had a flueless for ease of installation due to the wall and chimney type, plus it matched the room. Oh, and its a 'focalpoint aden'.

Anywat, to sum up, i wont get a closeable/grill vent then.. This one instead?
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=100139&ts=30401&id=13616

seeing as it was mentioned we need 100cm2, by my quick calculation this one works out at about 150cm2 external diameter, and looks to be about 60% open, so we should be okay, right?

without going into politcs of it all, one resulted in death and imprisonment for the installer for failing to gas rate it.
as you now own one you must ensure that you have it serviced regular and on any sign of problems contact a reputable installer.
what you must now remember is that if anything goes wrong you dont have a flue for monoxides to escape it all comes in your house and as such you must take reasonable precuations for the safety of anyone in your household.

100cm2 of ventillation is required, it may make your house cold and drafty, by blocking it off will only result in monoxides building up in your property......... the fire needs ventillation to burn correctly if it doesnt it produces monoxides without the vent where can it escape too.
comprende.

sounds like an expensive mistake now doesnt it, if i was you!!!

i would have it capped off and leave the fire in. by capping it off you dont need the vents of antartica fitting, leaving you with a warmer house and you life in tact.

appoligy for being abrupt to all but i dont beleive in beating about the bush and molly codlin on some things.

forget mesuring the diametre of entire vent you need to measure the individual openings
example
1 cm high by 10cm long = 10 cm2 so you would need enure it had 100cm2 of opening.

 

[adiwill]

thanks for the advice all.. i must admit i'm a bit suprised about the concern with flueless fires... i thought they were well proved and tested now, or surely we wouldnt be able to get them in this country with all the stringent rules?

As for the vent.. i'll hold back until i speak to the installer again. But no, he hasnt left us any paperwork, but he still has to send us an invoice so i'm assuming something will come with that. I know that suonds bad, but we didnt just get him out of the paper or anything.. he was recommended by word of mouth, and i'm certain he's registered so should do everything by the book.

But c'mon.. flueless... are they REALLY an accident waiting to happen? surely not.

 

[gas4you]

But c'mon.. flueless... are they REALLY an accident waiting to happen? surely not.

YES How will you tell if the catylytic whatnot fails until you fall asleep, then you won't know because you wont wake up to find out

 

[doyle]

no flueless is an accident that has already happened resulting in DEATH.[b]

so keep that vent openno matter how drafty it is, your life might depend on it one day.[/b]

beleive it or not many of the guys in this forum have a conscience, they want to be able to sleep at night not wondering whether the new installation is killing someone, hence many will reject such work wher they are unhappy about fitting it.
it their lives aswell that go wrong not just the customers families.

 

[ollski]

I think the general concern is that nobody knows the lifespan of a catalytic converter, or has any way to check their condition or any real answer as to what happens when it fails. As said Bg work on virtually any old rubbish but they won't touch these with a bargepole and nor will most independent guys which also raises maintainance issues.

 

[adiwill]

so, the addition of a good and working monoxide monitor/alarm would take care of the fumes issue.. right?

Now, is the primary concern for these fires due to the cat failing? But cats dont just 'fail'. They can be compromised over many years yes, but the only reason why it would suddenly fail is due to massive overheating or physical damage, in either case it the damage would be visible, and most likely picked up by the aforementioned detector. They aren't subject to the same contaminants and conditions that cats in cars are subjected to, and these regularly excess of fiteen to twenty years.

Are we not all being a little overcautious? Can someone answer me WHY these fires would have been passed by our countries strict legislations if there was even a 1% chance of multiple failures, for example?

I'm as safety conscious as the next man (probably more so due to my job) but dont you surely have to accept the fact that just because there is a very slight chance something CAN go wrong , doesnt mean that it inevitably will? With regular servicing and maintenance checks i cant really see a problem.
Surely a regular gas fire or air vent which fails (as i'm sure they do) holds the same risks?