Not at the cat though is that not further down?
You wanted to know why we were negative about flueless gas fires - we told you. Doyle put it very nicely.
And your welcome.
air vent type?
- Thread starter adiwill
- Start date
Not at the cat though is that not further down?
You wanted to know why we were negative about flueless gas fires - we told you. Doyle put it very nicely.
And your welcome.
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adiwill said:
well you came to ask about vents, surely the size you need must atleast send one cell in your brain into gear, but hey you let a guy fit one and leave it working without adequate life saving ventillation, so who are we to preach safe or unsafe but we certainly know we need it and why we need it.
a monopoly £10 note says youll not fit the vents needed or will block it off again soon afterwards
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He can't say we didn't try - it's not as if we were even telling him to remove tha dam thing. The Buirley site claims the cat is not a safety device and that Carbon Dioxide is safe.
Not if the vents are inadequate though. It does say that the fire has an Anti-vitiation device though. Whoopie do.
Not if the vents are inadequate though. It does say that the fire has an Anti-vitiation device though. Whoopie do.
The way I understood the cwmbran incident was that the fire was left overgassed, this caused the cat to soot up and prevented the combustion products from coming into contact with the surface of the cat. As I understand it this thing is supposed to convert co to co2, to do this the co has to contact the surface of the cat, which it can't do when it's full of soot. The fire in wales only took a few months to soot up although it was well overgassed, now as we all know an awful lot of people never have their appliances serviced, so what will happen to a flueless fire that is slightly overgassed for say 7 or 8 years. Most people on here think it's a knocking bet that the cat will soot up eventually, which means that in a few years time there may be people dying with these things. Thats my take on it anyway and I wouldn't fit one for a big clock.
adiwill said:
There aren't any facts yet that is precisely the point, they are unproven in the long term. Nobody is trying to convince you of anything, we couldn't give a toss if you have one or not, but generally the swell of opinion of the vast majority of guys who work on gas appliances all the time can be taken as a reasonable indicator. I'm sure we would all love to stick a box in the fireplace, hole in the wall and run off to the next job but most of us would rather stick with the nnice, safe open flue system and that really is saying something.
OP don't like it because he's paid his money and now wishes he hadn't, so is desperate for anyone to give him hope that what he has bought is safe
As ollski says why should we worry, not as if we're invited round to tea is it
As ollski says why should we worry, not as if we're invited round to tea is it
Dan_Robinson said:
some manufacturers place the cat directly in the manifold, although admittedly thats a daft design.
look.. you're all missing the point. Everyone on here came on and immediatley said that these fires are dangerous because they have a cat fitted, and that in itself is dangerous due to the likelihood of the cat failing and filling the room with dangerous gases, and because of this you'd have to be raving mad to have one in your house, as death will surely follow.
I asked, where is this happening? Where is the proof that cats regularly fail on these fires? I said that Cats are well proved, and dont fail unless mistreated or subjected to very unusual cicrumstances, ones which a gas fire simply cannot create.
Of all the people who have contributed to this thread, who i'm assuming a lot are installers, none of you could give even give me ONE example of a cat failing on a gas fire, let alone causing death. You simply came back with stories of how your cat once died on your car. Well, as i said, cats do fail on cars but its down to engine tuning, and not a fault of the cat.
So, loads of scaremongering and opinions, but no one coming up with any facts. No one explained anything. and you wonder why i'm skeptical?
the death posted earlier was due to an incorrect fitting or manufacturing error, and therefore NOT directly a failure of the cat during everyday use, which is what you're all implying that these fires are prone to.
you're clutching at straws now..
you're clutching at straws now..
Adiwell, you may like to browse through this document
Of particular interest may be paragraph (b) on page 31 viz:
"A badly performing burner (defined in terms of carbon monoxide output) may be hidden behind a functioning catalyst. Measurements of combustion performance should be made before the catalyst, and after the catalyst to check that the catalyst is functioning efficiently. An indication of acceptable values should be given in the manufacturers Installation and Servicing Instructions for both locations."
I assume your installer set up/checked the fire with a combustion analyser?
I would suggest that you get the Installation & Servicing Instructions back from your installer PDQ and read them with regard to the exact size of vent required. If the instructions require xxx sq cm then that is what you must have regardless of whether the grille is "huge" (which, from your original posting, I would suspect is your main gripe from an asthetic point of view) or the fact that you may get a raging gale through the room.
IMHO your installer should not have left the fire connected as he has failed to complete the commissioning by not fitting the internal grille and also by not handing over to you the Instructions for the fire as he is required to do and therefore may well be in breach of the Gas Safety Regulations.
Of particular interest may be paragraph (b) on page 31 viz:
"A badly performing burner (defined in terms of carbon monoxide output) may be hidden behind a functioning catalyst. Measurements of combustion performance should be made before the catalyst, and after the catalyst to check that the catalyst is functioning efficiently. An indication of acceptable values should be given in the manufacturers Installation and Servicing Instructions for both locations."
I assume your installer set up/checked the fire with a combustion analyser?
I would suggest that you get the Installation & Servicing Instructions back from your installer PDQ and read them with regard to the exact size of vent required. If the instructions require xxx sq cm then that is what you must have regardless of whether the grille is "huge" (which, from your original posting, I would suspect is your main gripe from an asthetic point of view) or the fact that you may get a raging gale through the room.
IMHO your installer should not have left the fire connected as he has failed to complete the commissioning by not fitting the internal grille and also by not handing over to you the Instructions for the fire as he is required to do and therefore may well be in breach of the Gas Safety Regulations.
Your missing the point, there dangerous because they haven't got a flue.
How much do you know about the combustion process of natural gas, and the things that can go wrong with that process?
There's a 14 year old girl who is no longer alive because the cat failed on the new fire in her home.
Noone on here is interested in cats on cars, were gas installers.
Do you work for focal point? cos if you do you're wasting your time.
adiwill said:
But how do you know yours is fitted correctly or doesn't contain a manufacturing error
You haven't even been left with a safe air vent let alone a safe installation You have just given yourself your own answer. There is no room for error with these fires, everything has to be 150% ALL of the time, and that in a modern mechanical world is an impossibility.Not us who are clutching at straws methinks
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