Another socket in the loft topic

[ban-all-sheds]

There's nothing magic about that testing, you just want to make sure that the cables that should be connected all show a low impedance end to end,

A multimeter does not have sufficient low-ohm capabilities to be used for that, nor does your "you just want to make sure that..." cover off the special continuity tests needed for ring finals.

and that there's high impedance or o/c between conductors.

A multimeter will not generate anywhere near enough voltage to do insulation resistance tests.

It's really just verifying that your connections are in fact correct before powering up.

Err.... RCD tests? Fault-loop impedance?

 

[aesmith]

Would you test RCD operation as part of this sort of job? I'm assuming here that any RCD is pre-existing as there's no mention of one being added as part of this work. Or is it the case that because these are new sockets, and RCD protection is therefore required, it should be verified?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I will just get an electrician in as its likely i'll get battered here left right and centre.

is the route of the cable still visible for inspection?

Wanted to do some of the work first saving money but it seems pointless given some of the replies.

It's pointless if you don't have a clue or a concern on what you are doing.

oh well i was warned about posting here

About what? that you may be asked questions and given advise that could prevent you, your family, your guests, your neighbours family/guests, your pets, your neighbours pets, your property and your neighbours property, from any potential hazards that may be introduced by electrical work not being safely installed?
I think you were well advised on here right from the beginning and were wise to come here, even though it seems the advice has in the main been ignored!

 

[EFLImpudence]

Would you test RCD operation as part of this sort of job?

Yes of course the RCD would be tested.

What is the point of having it if it doesn't work?
The only way to determine if it does work is ... ?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Would you test RCD operation as part of this sort of job? I'm assuming here that any RCD is pre-existing as there's no mention of one being added as part of this work. Or is it the case that because these are new sockets, and RCD protection is therefore required, it should be verified?

New sockets, new cabling, likely buried less than 50mm without mechanical protection, so RCD would be tested.
I would test the RCD on any circuit I worked on.
I recently went on a fault find on a socket circuit that kept tripping the MCB out, sorted that and did an auto test on RCD only to find out it was not functioning either.

 

[aesmith]

How often do you reckon an RCD should be properly tested?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

How often do you reckon an RCD should be properly tested?

Every time a protected circuit was worked on, then as stated on the PIR notice/install cert, if no circuit or evidence of testing ASAP.

 

[enigmatic]

Ok so i corrected work that was shoddy left by a council tat electrician who couldn't give a flying **** about safety and left cables on top of pipes. So why test this circuit if all i have done is change the wiring like for like?

Then i simply took a circuit from the MCB that was from an old electrical heater x2 removed those awhile back and terminated the boxes with a blank plate. Now have used them to take into the loft to connect two double 13a sockets.

All i asked for was advice. But the stone wallers here got their panties in a twist about testing and wanting to see the results. As i didn't have them to show i was then basically tantamount to bullied and mocked because of it. My view of testing was ensuring that they worked correctly. I do not have the test equipment in order to certify the circuit. Thats what i stated i would get a spark in for to check everything was ok once i had done it. I did not leave the circuit in the loft live at any point.

The spark is due the 16th to check my work and do other jobs.

No wonder this site has a reputation.

prenticeboyofderry you are the most annoying up your own arse **** i've ever come across on a forum board. And everyone said ban all was the worst.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

prenticeboyofderry you are the most annoying up your own a**e **** i've ever come across on a forum board.

It is not my intention to come across that way, I am genuinely concerned at your safety and that of others this work could effect if a hazard had been introduced by your hands or by anybody elses, as it has not been proven to be safe. You stated that you had tested it, I only asked for those results because you said you had performed the test, which in truth was untrue.

I personally think I offered you sound, safe advice and also tried to protect you from any legally implication that could arise from installing this circuit.
Up shot of my so called annoyance, is that now hopefully you have taken on board the requirements concerning installing an electrical circuits and have arrange hopefully for a competent electrician to prove the situation is safe and compliant. I have nothing against anybody performing DIY, I come on to this site to help in a positive safe way and offer sound guidance on what is required, not to hinder, I promise you that.
I would apologize in the most sincerest of ways, I believed I had something to apologise about.
If you are not happy with the information/advice I have tried to offer you, then that it is up you, I am not going to bully you into submission or come breaking your door down, just ignore me it is as simply as that,

And everyone said ban all was the worst.

I am in training for that crown, I have not spent years on getting recognized quals and experience for nothing! Lets see what 2014 brings.


PS Anyone else who feels the same way, I can offer you information on how to activate the ignore function

 

[enigmatic]

Apologies on the potty mouth i had been on the syrup but i stand by my principles that your advice is often tainted with self indulgence or pompous attitude generally that said i believe you have advice to offer albeit full of arrogance.

So in summary what i have done is:

Two cables from consumer unit running to bedroom stops at a 30a junction box then another two cables go to 1st socket another cable from socket to 2nd socket and another cable to 3rd socket. Then two cables go back to junction box. There is also a spur from 2nd socket going to a fused spur powering a tv.

I have taken the 16a mcb that supplied the electrical heaters and run two cables from it into the loft and terminated into two 13a double sockets.

Next i will be installing my home network running cat6 and rg6 cable.

Electrician will be here on the 16th to check what i have done is ok and take out some wiring that i no longer want.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Apologies on the potty mouth i had been on the syrup

apology accepted

but i stand by my principles that your advice is often tainted with self indulgence or pompous attitude generally that said i believe you have advice to offer albeit full of arrogance.

I assure you that is not my intention, even if it may seem that I come across that way to you. My friends & family would be surprised that a statement like that would be addressed to me (Unless you talked to the missus that is but shes a funny bloke!). I am firm but fair, but not arrogant, self indulgent or pompous.
I am just trying to get a message across to you and other readers that may browse this topic for related help, with regards to safety.
I don't declare to be a get author of posts, so may be you are misinterpreting my posts, thinking that I have some sort of agenda to pyss you off! That is not the case, otherwise I would tell you straight and offer no guidance what so ever!

Two cables from consumer unit running to bedroom stops at a 30a junction box then another two cables go to 1st socket another cable from socket to 2nd socket and another cable to 3rd socket. Then two cables go back to junction box. There is also a spur from 2nd socket going to a fused spur powering a tv.

I will have to dissect the above information
*Two cables as a ring or two radials?
*Two cables to a one JB or to two?
*Two cables to first socket from junction box, a little puzzled by that, not sure what you are trying to achieve, does not sound right or normal.
*Second and third socket added as an unfused spur from first socket, again would need to know why you have run two cables originally to first socket as it would seem your intentions would be to run a ring, but that would mean you cannot spur from a spur.
I think a radial would have been a more suitable selection of circuit.
*Also the sizing of this cable and method of which was installed would be a design consideration

I have taken the 16a mcb that supplied the electrical heaters and run two cables from it into the loft and terminated into two 13a double sockets.

Is this a different circuit to the above?

 

[enigmatic]

Forgive me but i cannot offer the same terminology as you guys.

What i believe it to be is a ring main as it has two cables coming from the consumer unit into a JB then from there a cable runs to the first socket and not two as mentioned then onto the last socket in the room and back to the JB does that now sound right?

Also from the second socket in the room a spur has been taken to a fused switch type which has a power cable for tv.

 

[EFLImpudence]

does that now sound right?

No, it's different again from what you said previously.

 

[slippyr4]

What i believe it to be is a ring main as it has two cables coming from the consumer unit into a JB then from there a cable runs to the first socket and not two as mentioned then onto the last socket in the room and back to the JB does that now sound right?

If you mean that there is a cable running from the junction box, then on to a socket, then to another socket, and then back to the SAME junction box then it is very likely that you have what is called a bridged ring final. This is a) not allowed and b) potentially quite unsafe.

ban-all-sheds has asked you a number of times how many terminals there are in that junction box. If there are less than 6 - (and my description above matches what you've got) - then you have a problem.

Isolate the circuit and look inside the junction box. Are the live wires from the cable that goes to the chain of sockets and the cable that comes back from the sockets connection inside the junction box (same question with the neutrals and the "earths" too).

A photo of the inside of the junction box is going to get you some useful advice as to whether you have uncovered some dangerous wiring or not. Do post one please.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

What i believe it to be is a ring main as it has two cables coming from the consumer unit into a JB

They should be two junction boxes one for each cable

then from there a cable runs to the first socket and not two as mentioned then onto the last socket in the room and back to the JB does that now sound right?

That is not how it is done, you need to take a step or two back and do some research or at least ask the relevant questions or even answer some that have already been asked, so you can be helped. As it does seem you do not understand what a ring final circuit is!
Two cables (hopefully no less than 2.5mm2 T&E) from CU use the first junction box if you need to, I would of omitted this and gone straight the first socket with one cable, then from socket one to socket outlet two, then from two to socket three, then the second leg back to the CU. But you could if being lazy go to second socket then back to CU and add the unfused spur to the third socket.

Personally I would have installed a radial.
Install a 16A or 20A MCB
Remove the second cable at junction box from CU and the second cable from the second socket back to the junction box, then magic we have a radial circuit! The junction box if in an inaccessible location for maintenance, inspection and testing reasons must be of a type that is considered maintenance free.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Product...uk/Products/&gclid=CKmkjZ_357sCFUbKtAod8VcAQg

Please also note that cables when buried in walls should be routed within the permitted safe zones and chases and holing of joists should comply to part A of building regs.