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Anyone know of a good quality waterbased satinwood paint?

Discussion in 'Decorating and Painting' started by Sharpey, 6 Feb 2011.

  1. Sharpey

    Sharpey

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    Hi all.

    I have some new MDF skirting and architrave that I need a satinwood finish on. It was pre-primed but I put on a coat of wood primer/undercoat as well which was a bit thick but seem to have gone on well enough (I only realised afterwards you're not really meant to use it on MDF).

    I have an old tin of Crown quick drying Satin paint, but I'm not convinced of it's durability. I know waterbased satin paint is not reknowned for having a hard wearing surface but this isn't good enough. A hard scrape of a fingernail is enough to scrape it off so it's not going to withstand hoovering/sweeping/kicks etc.

    Does anyone know of a hardwearing waterbased satin for wood? I have heard of Dulux Trade Diamond Satinwood, which is apparently hardwearing, what are people's thoughts on this? Any thoughts on the durability/chip resistance of Sikkens BL Satura?

    Are there any other ones that are worth trying?


    Also, Dulux Decorator Centres, are these places open to the public? Can I just walk in and get something or do I need to have an account or something?

    Thanks.
    Appreciate any help


    EDIT: Also, for filling the screw holes, what should I use? Could I seal the hole with PVA and use a regular filler or should I go with a two-part filler? if so, is there a good one anyone can recommend? What about caulking the top gap against the wall....what should I use for that?
     
  2. dcdec

    dcdec

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    Don't go anywhere near paint with PVA, never ever!!
    Fill with an easy sand ready made filler, i use red devil for shallow holes such as nail/screw holes etc and make up easifill for deeper filling and skimming. When the filler is dry and sanded spot prime it with diluted paint.

    TBH honest i used some crown waterbased satin and it seamed alright, i've used sikkens oil based satura and its great stuff so i'd bet the water based isn't bad. However you are never going to get tough finishes with acryllic paints (or not as tough as oil based anyway). I've used Dulux diamond eggshell alot on walls and think its great but can't speak for the satin.

    I think you're best sticking with recognised trade names and yes you can go into a dulux decorator centre and just pay cash.
     
  3. Sharpey

    Sharpey

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    Hi dcdec, great tips :cool:

    I have actually bought the Sikkens Satura now, having read on other forums the consensus seems to be that it's great stuff and flows like oil based paint. How durable it is I don't know so I guess I'll just have to take care to not mark it....I think part of the reason that I'm paranoid is because it's on MDF - it doesn't seem to stick as well on MDF as it does on regular wood.

    The reason I mentioned PVA was I thought that because of how it is made up, that fillers have a hard time sticking to MDF more than normal wood. It's not just screw holes that need filling but a 3-4mm line all the way down the architraves - the edges of which are bare MDF. I thought PVA over this and inside the screw holes would help to aid adhesion to the filler (I won't be painting over the PVA, it's purely for sealing). Am I totally off the mark here? I'm worries about the filler coming out or cracking.

    I am going to go for a chemically hardening filler as it is MDF, maybe Ronseal High Performance or Isopon P38 (would these do the job?)

    Finally, I will need to run a bead of caulk over the top where the skirting meets the wall. Will a decent flexible caulk suffice? Again I am asking because it is MDF and I've read of people having trouble with shrinkage and cracking with certain types of caulk.


    Sorry for all the questions!
     
  4. dcdec

    dcdec

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    Caulk is a bit of a thorny issue as it does cause cracking. Its not actually the caulk that cracks its the paint, i think its because it ******* the drying. Water based paints dry by expelling vapour to the surface and personally i think thats what makes it crack. I often prime caulk with the shellac based zinsser and its usually ok, some use undercoat but the zinsser drys really quick.
    Problem with PVA is it creates a barrier between the surface and the paint so anything you apply on top sticks to the PVA rather than the wall/substrate etc and this creates a poor adhesion. I've honestly never had any trouble with MDF i prime it with acryllic and finish in whatever is specified. If memory serves me right i think you have to avoid oil based primers with MDF as it can make the MDF go furry.
    Again with fillers i've never had trouble with red devil on MDF and i havn't used the fillers you mention, they might be a bugger to rub down! You really need to prime the bare MDF before applying any filler to promote adhesion because the MDF will suck in the moisture in the filler and this is the case in any porous building product.

    Think that covers it let me know how you get on with the satura
     
  5. Sharpey

    Sharpey

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    Thanks again for the reply dcdec.

    Like I said, I won't be painting over the PVA (I'm fully aware it's a bad idea), it was just a thought to seal the bare MDF inside the screw holes/sides of architrave as I thought that any filler would adhere better to a PVA surface than to a bare MDF one, and hence less likely to crack away from it.......if this unadvisable I will just spot it with MDF primer.

    I have read up on the Isopon body filler, apparently it is really sandable (to a smooth finish) so I am going to go with that as many people seem to with MDF.

    So do you reckon a bead of water based undercoat over the line of caulk, let it dry thoroughly and paint over will do the trick? I've read that oil based U/C is the best for this but the topcoat will be waterbased so it will peel off with minimal pressure. Not sure what the shellac stuff you mentioned is.

    Also, is there any guidelines as to where I put the screws to install the skirting? I was going to put two together (one near the bottom and one nearer to the top) and follow this pattern probably every 12" down the board.


    I will update this thread once I've used the Sikkens Satura...quite looking forward to using it.

    Thanks again.
     
  6. dcdec

    dcdec

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    No because the MDF primer is acryllic (the drying problem) you'd be better off using an oil or semi-oil based paint or the shellac based zinsser bin, solvent dries mainly by evaporation (thats why it stinks), if you where to use undercoat for example just thin it down a bit so you dont get a thick unsightly line, use a small fitch and literally just run it along the bead of caulk but be sure the caulk is dry.
    Will check out the isopon filler, also sikkens spachtel is excellent for smooth finishes although you have to allow for a bit of occasional shrinkage as its oil based, its very very good on flush doors and the like when you want a high quality finish.
    Have to say when i've seen the chippies do skirting they always put one screw in, not sure but is it possible that two could pull against each other and cause cracking/splitting? Might be better off screwing and glueing.

    Be good to hear your feedback on the satura
     
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  7. Sharpey

    Sharpey

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    I've ordered two tubs of Isopon P38 now, but I will definitely keep the Sikkens filler in mind for the future. Cheers.

    I was thinking of using two screws because it's 120mm high, just seems inadequate to only do one, I'm worried it might not sit tight enough against the wall. I will experiment.

    OK, no to MDF primer for priming the caulk. I do not want to use the an oil based U/C because the topcoat is waterbased and thus it will not stick properly to it. If you're saying waterbased undercoat is no good, what of this shellac stuff? How is that different to water/oil based undercoats and will a waterbased topcoat stick to it? It will only be a couple of mm of topcoat anyway as it's just the caulk that will need to finished but I'd still like to play it safe. I'll be sure to let the caulk dry thoroughly.
     
  8. dcdec

    dcdec

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    The shellac bin is a primer and sealer and adheres to pretty much anything. Its fine to use oil or water based paints over the top of it. It dries like a rocket so you cant mess about with it and it stinks to high heaven so you need to be well ventilated. It will stick to the caulk forming a barrier which gives you far better adhesive qualities than applying acrylic straight on top of the caulk.
    I've always found it this best method but i'm not sure if there is a definitive guaranteed method, i do sometimes get cracking but i think its probably my fault for not giving it long enough to dry as i'm doing it for a living at times i need to crack on![/u]
     
  9. Sharpey

    Sharpey

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    Righto....I will get some of that...is it this that I want?

    http://www.u-diy.co.uk/index.aspx?s=Product&p=3300


    I will let the caulk dry for about a week before I prime/topcoat it.

    The screw heads and the countersunk holes in the MDF, shall I just prime that normally with MDF primer, or could I use the Zinsser stuff or should I just leave it and fill it?
     
  10. dcdec

    dcdec

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    Yep thats the stuff.

    You can either prime the MDF before you fit it or fit it, prime it then fill it. Make sure you spot prime the filler when its dry and rubbed down. Don't use the zinsser its too difficult to brush out. You should be ok this time of year but i have seen caulk shrink badly if left in hot weather for a long period.
     
  11. Sharpey

    Sharpey

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    dcdec, you're a gent, thanks for all your help. I'll update this once I've used the Sikkens paint so others can get an impression of what it's like.
     
  12. dcdec

    dcdec

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    No problem, hope it all goes well for you.
     
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  13. pittawithcheese

    pittawithcheese

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    Shame I didn't reply to you sooner before you bought the expensive products.

    We have rennovated our house and have used MDF a fair bit, but like everyone we like to disguise it so it doesn't look like MDF (a bit of pine decorative moulding no-more-nailsed to the edges usually does the trick).

    Dulux quick-dry satinwood works every time if you put 2-3 coats over a International paints MDF primer (not available at B&Q, but usually in-stock at Homebase). Like you said, just use the primer to seal the MDF otherwise it drinks your nice expensve paint. We have never had problems with the paint cracking or flaking, and we usually caulk the edges of the project before sealing and that stops the cracking as the caulk sort-of gets sealed too.

    If you haven't finished your project by now, I hope this advice helps....
     
  14. Sharpey

    Sharpey

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    Thanks for your reply pitta.

    I've still not started this yet as I got sidetracked with other work but coincidentally I am looking to get back on this in the next week or so.

    I've not had a chance to use the Sikkens paint yet so I can't provide any feedback on that.

    The MDF I've bought is actually pre-primed so I don't need to prime it. I will just go straight on to it with the paint and hopefully it will be OK. Having looked in to it a bit more, I think waterbased paints stick better to solid bare woods like pine rather than MDF but it's too late for that now!
     
  15. Sharpey

    Sharpey

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    Hello all again.

    I made a start today and got all the paint on. It looks like it might need a second coat though I'm not sure.

    If I was to do a second coat would I need to sand in between? It is a waterbased satin paint on MDF, FYI.....could I just go straight on with the second?

    if I do need to sand what grade of sandpaper would you recommend and would it just be a very light sand needed?
     
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