April 6th Changes

[JohnW2]

To clarify NO electrical work is now notifiable because it is in a kitchen.

Exactly, and that was probably in the back of my mind when I allowed myself to quote the whole of the OP's question.

However, to make absolutley certain that everyone is now clear (and to appease PBoD!), I would supplement you statement above (with which I totally agree) with:

"SOME electrical work is still notifiable even though it is in a kitchen"

(and that 'some work' would be that which involves the provision of new circuits - or, of course, any work in at least some parts of the kitchen if it happens to contain a shower, bath, sauna or swimming pool ).

Kind Regards, John

 

[sergeantash]

Lol, thanks again all - we all deserve a beer after that

 

[JohnW2]

Lol, thanks again all - we all deserve a beer after that

You're welcome - and sorry about all the bickering As I said, I've already started, by opening a bottle!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

That's wasn't bickering, that was humour.

 

[JohnW2]

That's wasn't bickering, that was humour.

Light-hearted/humourous bickering

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

That's wasn't bickering, that was humour.

Oh how I miss that!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

It was not my intention to throw a spanner in to the thread.
But it is often the case, that other users read posted topics, that they think are related to their own projects/situations/issues/enquires.
And could be, under their own interpretations (which often throws a self-induced smokescreen over the truth) mislead them in to believing in this instance, that all electrical work within kitchens was now permitted without the needs of notification, regardless of what the OP was asking in regards to.
As in reality any new circuit or even a consumer unit change within the kitchen(they are often found there) would be deemed notifiable work.

No bickering, no humour, just some facts.

Another point would be that although non-notifiable work can be carried out, it still requires to be proven that the work is safe and electrical reports and certifications with details of the installation and work carried out, should be produced. Often overlooked

 

[mattylad]

I think this is why the OP asked the question.

Threads on here tend to wander OT so much with differences of opinion.

 

[AdamCH]

Another point would be that although non-notifiable work can be carried out, it still requires to be proven that the work is safe and electrical reports and certifications with details of the installation and work carried out, should be produced. Often overlooked

Where does it say that you have to prove the work is safe and maintain electrical reports and certifications with details of the installation and work carried out?

I don't see how a DIY'ers records could be relied upon and I'd expect someone wanting assurance to get an inspection and someone that wants to prosecute needing to prove that it was unsafe (not having the records being insufficient).

 

[JohnW2]

It was not my intention to throw a spanner in to the thread. But it is often the case, that other users read posted topics, that they think are related to their own projects/situations/issues/enquires. And could be, under their own interpretations (which often throws a self-induced smokescreen over the truth) mislead them in to believing in this instance, that all electrical work within kitchens was now permitted without the needs of notification, regardless of what the OP was asking in regards to.

Yes, I fully understood, and agree with, your motivations.

You know (I hope) that I know as well as you do what is, and is not, now notifiable. The only issue was that the wording of my initial response was such that it could be read to mean something which was not true. I realised that when I saw your response, and immediately posted my clarification. That's all - just a case of not having written as precisiely as I should have done - something we are all guilty of at times!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Another point would be that although non-notifiable work can be carried out, it still requires to be proven that the work is safe and electrical reports and certifications with details of the installation and work carried out, should be produced. Often overlooked

That's very true, and it's a bit of a problem in a forum like this. I don't think that, in practice, the paperwork is so much of an issue, but we all know that a high, probably very high, proportion of DIY electrical work actually fails to comply with Part P because of the absence of appropriate testing. However, given that that is almost certainly never going to change (no matter what we say to DIYers), I'm not sure what we can/should do about it, or what attitude we should take to it.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Where does it say that you have to prove the work is safe and maintain electrical reports and certifications with details of the installation and work carried out?

As I've just written to PBoD, the problem is that the great majority of DIYer's do not 'prove that the work is safe' by undertaking the required tests - and failure to do that is non-compliant with BS7671 and, hence, effectively non-compliant with Part P.

BS7671 (compliance with which will be the way that nearly all DIYers will be relying on to demonstrate compliance with Part P) also requires the certificates to be produced, but I personally think that's much less of an issue. Having said that, if a DIYer does undertake proper testing but does not retain records of the results, they would be pretty daft - since that would probably be the closest they would have to 'evidence' (albeit not that strong) that they had complied with (ortried to comply with) part P!

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Where does it say that you have to prove the work is safe and maintain electrical reports and certifications with details of the installation and work carried out?

Chapter 61, 62 & 63 quite clearly states it, approved doc part p states it,
If you care to read them?

I don't see how a DIY'ers records could be relied upon and I'd expect someone wanting assurance to get an inspection and someone that wants to prosecute needing to prove that it was unsafe (not having the records being insufficient).

By having the records that would detail upon commissioning it was safe, that is why I am a fan of all work being made notifiable and a legal requirement that details and records of that work should be produced via certificates, reports & schedules.
If you cannot prove what you are doing is safe, you should be left to making the tea (supervised if needs be, supervised tea making that is!)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

we all know that a high, probably very high, proportion of DIY electrical work actually fails to comply with Part P because of the absence of appropriate testing. However, given that that is almost certainly never going to change (no matter what we say to DIYers), I'm not sure what we can/should do about it, or what attitude we should take to it.

Never, never regard that as acceptable or inevitable.

Always, always tell people that they must test.

Always, always tell them that if they cannot or will not do the work properly then doing it improperly is unacceptable - it is simply and clearly "do it right or do not do it at all".

 

[JohnW2]

If you can prove what you are doing is safe, you should be left to making the tea (supervised if needs be, supervised tea making that is!)

Given that we've been talking about those posts which don't say quite what we intended, did you really intend what you wrote here?

Kind Regards, John