Are we a racist society?

[Mottie]

While it was profitable, of course they did. Even slaves get fed up from time to time.

The didn’t leave through choice. Look how it’s done since.

 

[noseall]

The didn’t leave through choice. Look how it’s done since.

Irrelevant.

 

[Mottie]

Irrelevant.

To you maybe, not to those still existing over there.

 

[MNW67]

Irrelevant.

To you maybe, not to those still existing over there.

A more balanced view here from Max Hastings:

Because I was one of those who passionately opposed the white regime and supported black majority rule, I often ask myself whether I bear a minuscule share of responsibility for Mugabe. Reading Godwin's tale of tragedy, of misgovernment on an epic scale, it is difficult to deny that whatever black Rhodesians endured under Smith is less than they have suffered under Mugabe.

Godwin quotes an observation familiar in modern Africa, that the two great tragedies to befall the continent were: the coming of white people; and their departure before creating new institutions capable of sustaining themselves, to replace those that they had destroyed.

Many of us always acknowledged that majority rule would be fraught with problems. Yet nothing can make those who saw white minority rule in its naked ugliness lament its passing. I cannot bring myself to feel profound pity for Peter Godwin's white Zimbabweans, decent people though some of them are. Their exclusion was ordained a generation ago, by their own leaders' folly and savagery. Compassion is overwhelmingly due to black Zimbabwe, which neither white guns nor white butter can save from the monsters who are the legacy of the Europeans' brief sojourn in Africa.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/feb/27/comment.zimbabwe

 

[IT Minion]

I didn't bring up the subject but as both you and carman were quick to search out data to back up your post but are not willing, for balance, to search alternative data led me to make an assumption

it's your theory, not mine. I'm not going to do your research for you.

Why do you think you get to demand proof from others and then make up theoretical scenarios that we have to take seriously without you even trying to find data for it.

Why should we hold you to a lower standard than anyone else, are you the DEI poster here? (Although that's isn't how DEI operate, they are often based on the fact that minority candidates are held to a higher standard and do better than White candidates with the same scores. Mottie would be the White guy who cruises in not knowing he's a worse choice)

 

[noseall]

for balance

FFS, lol.

For balance, you scoured the globe to find a dictatorial country, that has spent the minutest amount of recent history, hounding whites out their land. Take a bow.

Balance my arse.

 

[Mottie]

FFS, lol.

For balance, you scoured the globe to find a dictatorial country, that has spent the minutest amount of recent history, hounding whites out their land. Take a bow.

Balance my arse.

FFS no. I knew plenty of Ex (white) Zimbabweans when I was in South Africa.

 

[Mottie]

it's your theory, not mine. I'm not going to do your research for you.

Why do you think you get to demand proof from others and then make up theoretical scenarios that we have to take seriously without you even trying to find data for it.

I’ve tried. Can’t find any but don’t worry about it, I’m sure you’re right. I must get onboard with the mantra if I don’t want to be stalked on here. White man bad, black man good. That ok?

 

[Odds]

Do you not think that white British people would be considered an ethnic minority in an Asian owned and run company? Because I do.

If they worked in a factory in India, for instance, yes they would - but the study regards racism in the UK and USofA, where greater diversity and racial integration are political goals and bring cultural benefits.

 

[Odds]

Or overcome any innate tendencies or biases (if such things exist) through maturity, reason, and empathy

The term 'unconscious bias' is often used but the article cites a different approach:

Research on implicit* bias covers a multitude of different types of bias that individuals are “unwilling or unable” to report explicitly and accurately. It is a set of tools – among them the implicit association test (IAT), which measures attitudes and beliefs that people may be unwilling or unable to report – that allows us to better predict who will pick the White CVs over the Black CVs, who will rate the White student’s work as better than the Black student’s work, or who will schedule the White patient’s appointment sooner than the Black patient’s appointment, even if the person in question is unwilling or unable to admit to doing those things. That’s the crucial part: the tests don’t rely on the person’s awareness of their own bias or their preparedness to honestly tell you.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Amusing that nobody has done a reverse study? Why? Wouldn’t you like to know?

Any links ?

 

[IT Minion]

I’ve tried. Can’t find any but don’t worry about it, I’m sure you’re right. I must get onboard with the mantra if I don’t want to be stalked on here. White man bad, black man good. That ok?

You're allowed to have your own theories, but not present them as equal to actual data.

The data shows that Ethnic minorities have a much harder time to get jobs. Do you think that's significant?

 

[noseall]

If they worked in a factory in India, for instance

Do you reckon Mottie is confusing itinerant back packer - fruit picker - hostel dwelling types, with serious job hunters?

 

[Odds]

Do you reckon Mottie is confusing itinerant back packer - fruit picker - hostel dwelling types, with serious job hunters?

Hard to say - fruit picking is a serious job. At least pay 'em minimum wage. Most of 'em tend to come from Eastern Europe where they have the knack for it, developed over generations. An honourable trade in Romania where babushka will pass on the technique for squeezing the berries just right to the young women of the village.

 

[IT Minion]

Any links ?

What Mottie actually asked for was a study of jobs that aren't available online (he meant to ask for an even smaller study, where the organisation is owned by an ethnic minority and the job isn't available online, or perhaps where the person doing the recruitment is an ethnic minority). Which is a really hard thing to study. First you have to find the jobs, and how do you know the ones you find are representative?

Then you've got to find a fair way to apply for those jobs without complicating things. CVs are good for that because you can control them well, but if the person has to make a phone call or turn up in person, how do you make the individual candidate equal other than race? You can try to minimise it but it's hard. And it would take a huge amount of time from lots of people.

It'd be a really hard study to run and one that will always be doomed to being flawed.