Commercial and industrial have always been metal-clad.
Blankety blank
- Thread starter ericmark
- Start date
Commercial and industrial have always been metal-clad.
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Very true, but seriously injudicious 'DIY fiddling' inside live CUs surrounded by earthed metal is presumably not all that common in commercial and industrial environments
It is arguably a bit ironic that a requirement seemingly designed to protect people from certain risks only in domestic premises is increasing a risk/danger which primarily exists only in domestic premises
Kind Regards, John
You can, but that's a bit of an inconvenience, particularly if/when one wants to work on the 'plastic CU within' - and, of course, if some joker came along and earthed (or 'bonded') that 'non-flammable cabinet (assuming it were metal) we'd be more-or-less back to the 'square one' dangers
You can also, if you so wish, have a 'non-combustible' CU enclosure absolutely covered on front, sides and bottom with 12mm holes (big enough for quite large flames to creep through)
Kind Regards, John
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Napit code breakers have it as a C2, Blank pushed in or out without a tool (416.2.1) Reading that reg though no mention of a tool.
I think they mean 416.2.4
But I do find that the Napit code breakers book is quite harsh.
I think they mean 416.2.4
But I do find that the Napit code breakers book is quite harsh.
As you say, it must be 416.24, not 416.2.1 they are thinking about.
However, they/you are thereby talking about a blank that can be removed without a tool - which, as I understand it, is not the issue that eric raised when he started this thread. I thought he was talking about a blank which would be compliant with regs (which may mean that it could not be removed without a tool) if it were manufactured by the maker of the CU (hence 'type tested') but which he was suggesting would be non-compliant if it were of some other make (hence not 'type-tested').
... which is why I asked him, when he said that he would give it a C3, what regulation he could cite as a reason for that code, if the only issue were the 'make' of the item. What are your views about that?
Kind Regards, John
As I've just read, if I understand correctly, it's actually 'worse, than you are suggesting - since I think that eric was saying that he would probably give an otherwise 'OK' blank a C3 for being ofthe wrong 'make' (i.e. not 'type-tested')!
[ I have to say, however, that I don't think, in general, that the fact that "zero deaths or shocks had been recorded due to XYZ" would be a remotely safe reason for concluding that XYZ was "not something to worry about"! ]
Kind REgards, John
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I am saying that my issuing of a C2 or C3 code can be questioned at the time or a later date, so if I see a fault which could be questioned as it if C3 or C2, then giving a C3 you have raised the issue, so can't be said you missed it, but it does not force anyone to correct it, so if found it was to manufacturers spec, it is unlikely one will be in trouble for saying some thing is potentially dangerous where what is considered as a higher authority has said this complies with type testing.
So returning to the blank, having a metal blank if a wire becomes detached inside the consumer unit it can make a metal blank live, so any metal blank would require crimping onto the metal box or separate earth wire, so in real terms seems unlikely a metal blank can be used unless it is impossible for any wire even if there is a fire inside the consumer unit to touch the blank, so metal not really an option unless plastic coated.
With a plastic blank, to get fingers behind them to remove seems unlikely, the only way to remove without key or tool is to push them in. I am sure when pushing a blank in there must be a limit to force used to test, if I stand on a consumer unit made of plastic the whole unit will likely break, so I would say the same applies banging it with an elbow, so looking for protection against fingers or other object not greater than 80mm in length and 12mm in diameter (accidental finger contact). I am sure there is a limit to the pressure one can be expected to push with a finger? And I suspect in most cases you could not exert enough pressure with a finger to push in the blank. Use a screwdriver and you using a tool.
So returning to the blank, having a metal blank if a wire becomes detached inside the consumer unit it can make a metal blank live, so any metal blank would require crimping onto the metal box or separate earth wire, so in real terms seems unlikely a metal blank can be used unless it is impossible for any wire even if there is a fire inside the consumer unit to touch the blank, so metal not really an option unless plastic coated.
With a plastic blank, to get fingers behind them to remove seems unlikely, the only way to remove without key or tool is to push them in. I am sure when pushing a blank in there must be a limit to force used to test, if I stand on a consumer unit made of plastic the whole unit will likely break, so I would say the same applies banging it with an elbow, so looking for protection against fingers or other object not greater than 80mm in length and 12mm in diameter (accidental finger contact). I am sure there is a limit to the pressure one can be expected to push with a finger? And I suspect in most cases you could not exert enough pressure with a finger to push in the blank. Use a screwdriver and you using a tool.
The important word is "recorded". How many incidents happen but are not recorded.
Do people make an official record every time they shout "" Duck Me that hurt ""
I prefer the trifle when it is soaked in sherry.
You also don't want a C2 or even C1 when the blank is removed.
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