Blanki g cooker isolation under sink to pass EICR

[JohnW2]

Satnavs use a modified version of Dikstra's Shortest Path First algorithm, which is the foundation of the OSPF routing algorithm used by Autonomous Systems in the Internet. This is not really surprising, as the road system is a network too.

Thanks. That makes sense. However, do I take it that you agree that application of such an algorithm (indeed, application of any algorithm, in any context) does not qualify as re[presenting any sort of 'intelligence'?

 

[morqthana]

A Sat Nav must use intelligence surely?

I'm waiting for one which instead of

"Make a U-turn if possible"

uses a cross voice to say

"If you hadn't been going so fast you wouldn't have missed that turn".

 

[davelx]

Thanks. That makes sense. However, do I take it that you agree that application of such an algorithm (indeed, application of any algorithm, in any context) does not qualify as re[presenting any sort of 'intelligence'?

Absolutely! I've coded that algorithm myself, just for fun.

 

[morqthana]

AI slop which mostly creates stories some people might believe.

This is the type of real risk arising from AI.

Google AI Overviews put people at risk of harm with misleading health advice

Exclusive: Inaccurate information presented in summaries, Guardian investigation finds

www.theguardian.com

Not being too good, but being too bad.

 

[EFLImpudence]

 

[JohnW2]

Absolutely! I've coded that algorithm myself, just for fun.

Indeed. Although I've probably forgotten the vast majority of what I once knew about network theory/analysis, I did exactly the same 'back then', and seem to recall that it was a pretty trivial coding exercise (you may have tempted me to 'try again' to see if that is the case ).

However, as we seem to be agreed, execution of an algorithm (any algorithm) is essentially the antithesis of "AI". Any "intelligence" (for want of a better word) involved was exercised by the humans who devised the algorithm. Once an algorithm has been created, its application (by humans or machines) is a purely 'dumb and mechanical' process!

One thing occurs to me. Autoroute (and Autoroute Plus etc.) were created (I think) in the late 80s, and seemed to work reasonably well on "PCs" at a time when the capabilities of those machines (particularly in terms of processor speed and memory) were extremely limited, given that there are an awful lot of 'nodes' in the road network even just within the UK (and I think Autoroute was 'multinational'). I therefore wonder how it worked, and whether it used the Dijkstra (you omitted the "j"!) algorithm (which I think had been around since the 60s), or what?

 

[JohnW2]

They don't now, and they're up to several 10's, possibly 100's, of millions of moves per second.

One thing which occurs to me is that, in some senses, 'intelligence' (whatever that means) may sometimes actually be counter-productive in relation to playing chess.

An algorithm-based machine chess player presumably works on the assumption that "absolutely anything is possible". However, a human player might, by (quite probably subconscious) application of 'intelligence', dismiss (i.e. not consider) the possibility of seemingly 'crazy' moves on the part of their opponent (e.g. deliberately losing major pieces early in the game) - and, at least in theory, that might cause them to miss winning strategies that a 'dumb' computer would probably consider as much as any others?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

One thing occurs to me. Autoroute (and Autoroute Plus etc.) were created (I think) in the late 80s, and seemed to work reasonably well on "PCs" at a time when the capabilities of those machines (particularly in terms of processor speed and memory) were extremely limited, given that there are an awful lot of 'nodes' in the road network even just within the UK (and I think Autoroute was 'multinational').

I remember making use of it, on a B&G laptop. It was quite limited, it only 'knew' about the main roads, and main towns, and even then, was quite slow at plotting a route.

 

[JohnW2]

I remember making use of it, on a B&G laptop. It was quite limited, it only 'knew' about the main roads, and main towns, and even then, was quite slow at plotting a route.

My memory is hazy, since we're talking about some 35 years ago, but I was playing with it at a time when I doubt that anyone had even heard of laptops Maybe my recollection is incorrect, but I thought that it 'did quite well' on a desktop PC - although, of course, expectations of "doing well" were very different back then!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

although, of course, expectations of "doing well" were very different back then!

I was 'gob smacked' with it. I had just imported from the US, a batch of cheap, manufactures surplus GPS receiver PCB's, intending to adapt one for packet radio, and managed to interface one to a laptop. Before then, I had always managed, by the night before - scanning a map, and writing up a list of towns to aim for, and road numbers, to pin to the dash.

Now I just type a number, and a postcode in, and it takes me to the door.

 

[JohnW2]

I was 'gob smacked' with it. I had just imported from the US, a batch of cheap, manufactures surplus GPS receiver PCB's, intending to adapt one for packet radio, and managed to interface one to a laptop. Before then, I had always managed, by the night before - scanning a map, and writing up a list of towns to aim for, and road numbers, to pin to the dash. .... Now I just type a number, and a postcode in, and it takes me to the door.

I was brought up in the days of AA-provided type-written 'routes'.

The AA obviously managed to accumulate a stockpile of a countless number of 'pages', each giving detailed instructions as to how to drive from a particular A to a particular B (that being a relatively short distance). Whenever we were going to go on a holiday which involved a lengthy and unfamiliar drive ('from A to Z'), my Dad would request "a route" from the AA, and they would then seemingly 'staple together' an appropriate pile of those pages to produce a description of the entire route from A to Z.

Whilst following those instructions would hopefully get one from A to Z, I presume that there was little, if any, attempt at 'optimisation' of the route!

 

[morqthana]

I was brought up in the days of AA-provided type-written 'routes'.

I was brought up in the days of maps, road atlases.

And I still have an atlas in the car - trying to use a satnav to plot a route from A to Z over country lanes is basically impossible.

The AA obviously managed to accumulate a stockpile of a countless number of 'pages', each giving detailed instructions as to how to drive from a particular A to a particular B (that being a relatively short distance). Whenever we were going to go on a holiday which involved a lengthy and unfamiliar drive ('from A to Z'), my Dad would request "a route" from the AA, and they would then seemingly 'staple together' an appropriate pile of those pages to produce a description of the entire route from A to Z.

Plan B: Buy a decent road atlas.

Spoiler: Disclaimer

IHNI if you still can.

 

[JohnW2]

I was brought up in the days of maps, road atlases.

So was I. However, the AA routes provided additional useful information, such as that relating to 'landmarks', potentially confusiong road signage potential hazards etc.

And I still have an atlas in the car - trying to use a satnav to plot a route from A to Z over country lanes is basically impossible.

Same here, although ....

Plan B: Buy a decent road atlas.

Spoiler: Disclaimer

IHNI if you still can.

My offspring would probably tell me that there is no need for paper maps/road atlases, since the same is available in their phones, tablets and laptops - and probably also that, although paper versions can become partially 'obsolete' the day after they are printed, some of the 'online' ones our updated in nearly real time (and may also offer real-time information on traffic conditions, road works, accidents etc.)!
Times have changed

 

[morqthana]

My offspring would probably tell me that there is no need for paper maps/road atlases, since the same is available in their phones, tablets and laptops - and probably also that, although paper versions can become partially 'obsolete' the day after they are printed, some of the 'online' ones our updated in nearly real time (and may also offer real-time information on traffic conditions, road works, accidents etc.)!
Times have changed

Get your offspring to give me a call when the screen size and the level of detail matches an OS 1:50,000...

 

[morqthana]

Oh - and try to dissuade them from ever venturing out on foot into any form of "wilderness" without a paper map, a compass, and the knowledge of how to use the two together.