Blanki g cooker isolation under sink to pass EICR

[morqthana]

Also, when walking in London (other cities are available) nobody on a scooter is going to try and snatch an A-Z from you.

 

[morqthana]

Plus this is a thing of beauty https://www.amazon.co.uk/Times-Comprehensive-Atlas-World/dp/0008610118

 

[morqthana]

And what will be the mapping app equivalent in 100 or 200 years time of opening up a 100 or 200 year old map or atlas?

 

[JohnW2]

Get your offspring to give me a call when the screen size and the level of detail matches an OS 1:50,000...

I agree,but they seem to find such things to be 'adequate' - and, provided the underlying data has adequate resolution, they can zoom the display of it as much as they want/need.

 

[JohnW2]

Oh - and try to dissuade them from ever venturing out on foot into any form of "wilderness" without a paper map, a compass, and the knowledge of how to use the two together.

I'm not sure that attempts at such dissuasion would fall on very fertile ground, given that their phones (and maybe even watches ) have GPS and a compass

 

[JohnW2]

Plus this is a thing of beauty https://www.amazon.co.uk/Times-Comprehensive-Atlas-World/dp/0008610118

Indeed ... but so, in its day (now somewhat dusty and battered) was the below, given to me by my grandparents on Christmas Day 1957. However, beyond its sentimental(and slightly historical) value it is now pretty useless, not the least because a substantial proportion of country names are now incorrect (not to mention countless other changes in the ensuing 68 years )

However, more to the point, in context, that such a 'thing of beauty' is not appropriate for people wandering about on foot in a wilderness, nor really in a car!

 

[JohnW2]

And what will be the mapping app equivalent in 100 or 200 years time of opening up a 100 or 200 year old map or atlas?

Interesting question.

The 'app' itself is obviously irrelevant, what matters being the data underlying what it displays - so, just as with paper maps or atlases, it will all depend on what has been archived (and survived in archive) for those 100 or 200 years.

I think that OS maps are now totally digitised, to an extremely high degree of resolution, with continuous revision (including current upgrading to '3D') - there was an interesting programme about this on TV fairly recently. It would surprise me if they are not very regularly archiving their 'as now' database and taking as many steps as they can to safeguard the long-term survival of those archives.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

So was I. However, the AA routes provided additional useful information, such as that relating to 'landmarks', potentially confusiong road signage potential hazards etc.

Same here, although ....

My offspring would probably tell me that there is no need for paper maps/road atlases, since the same is available in their phones, tablets and laptops - and probably also that, although paper versions can become partially 'obsolete' the day after they are printed, some of the 'online' ones our updated in nearly real time (and may also offer real-time information on traffic conditions, road works, accidents etc.)!
Times have changed

I still keep a paper road atlas, just in case, and for 'browsing'. It's some 20 years old, but fine for what I use it for, which is to grasp a mental idea of where I am, and what's near, when I'm simply touring an area. Point to point, the satnav is great, and beats the paper map easily, especially as the satnav receives traffic data.

 

[JohnW2]

I still keep a paper road atlas, just in case, and for 'browsing'. It's some 20 years old, but fine for what I use it for, which is to grasp a mental idea of where I am, and what's near, when I'm simply touring an area. Point to point, the satnav is great, and beats the paper map easily, especially as the satnav receives traffic data.

Same here - and, like yours, the paper maps etc. in my car are pretty old, but probably adequate for what they might occasionally be used for.

 

[morqthana]

I agree,but they seem to find such things to be 'adequate' - and, provided the underlying data has adequate resolution, they can zoom the display of it as much as they want/need.

I've yet to see any device with a large enough display, or a mapping app which does not drop detail when zooming out, such that all of the map data remains displayed when zoomed out to an area of several 100 km².

I'm not sure that attempts at such dissuasion would fall on very fertile ground, given that their phones (and maybe even watches ) have GPS and a compass

People have got into serious trouble, requiring emergency rescue (and for all I know actually died) by assuming that their device(s) will always work faultlessly.

Occasionally GPS signals are jammed by the military for training purposes.
.
.
Regardless of which device you choose you should still carry and be able to read a map and understand how it relates to the ground around you.
Even if you have a smartphone or GPS with full OS mapping, it can't read and interpret the map for you. All it can do is show your position - being able to actually interpret the map correctly remains an essential skill.
.
.
Having the ability to understand from the map what the terrain will be like, choose suitable routes and be able to make decisions about changing your route if you need to is vital
.
.
Every hill and mountain walker needs to learn how to interpret a map, and to navigate effectively using a map and compass, including in poor visibility.

Indeed ... but so, in its day (now somewhat dusty and battered) was the below, given to me by my grandparents on Christmas Day 1957. However, beyond its sentimental(and slightly historical) value it is now pretty useless, not the least because a substantial proportion of country names are now incorrect (not to mention countless other changes in the ensuing 68 years )

It is precisely those characteristics which make it so interesting.

I take it you're also not a fan of old travelogues?

However, more to the point, in context, that such a 'thing of beauty' is not appropriate for people wandering about on foot in a wilderness, nor really in a car!

That's true - the Times atlas is rather large and heavy. I dread to think how large and heavy it would be if it mapped the entire land area of the world at 1:25000 or 1:50000.

Interesting question.

The 'app' itself is obviously irrelevant, what matters being the data underlying what it displays - so, just as with paper maps or atlases, it will all depend on what has been archived (and survived in archive) for those 100 or 200 years.

There's quite a lot which matters.

Longevity of the media used for archiving: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_degradation. There's no mainstream digital media which begins to approach the lifetime of vellum or museum-grade cotton paper, but some work is being done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC

Even the medium is physically intact, what about a functioning device to read it? Will one exist in several hundred years time?

What hardware interface does it need? Will computers offer it in several hundred years? Will operating systems support it?

And beyond all the physical stuff, there's the issue of the format of the data, both re the file system used, and the actual file format.

Obsolescence: File Formats and Software | Digital Preservation Management

www.dpworkshop.org

We've already lost access to some file formats only decades old.

I think that OS maps are now totally digitised, to an extremely high degree of resolution, with continuous revision (including current upgrading to '3D') - there was an interesting programme about this on TV fairly recently. It would surprise me if they are not very regularly archiving their 'as now' database and taking as many steps as they can to safeguard the long-term survival of those archives.

That would be a first.

 

[SimonH2]

I'm waiting for one which instead of

"Make a U-turn if possible"

uses a cross voice to say

"If you hadn't been going so fast you wouldn't have missed that turn".

A colleague years ago said it should shout "I said turn left you idiot"

This is the type of real risk arising from AI.

Google AI Overviews put people at risk of harm with misleading health advice

Exclusive: Inaccurate information presented in summaries, Guardian investigation finds

www.theguardian.com

Not being too good, but being too bbad.

A while ago, my wife said "you should be eating more of <list of stuff>". As it happens, I'd only just looked at the page it was a summary of and replied "actually, that's a list of thing NOT to eat". That was in relation to a medical condition.

Now I just type a number, and a postcode in, and it takes me to the door.

You hope. I think we've all read reports of people going to the wrong place, going a long way round, following the sat nav into a river, and the like. It's always a good idea to know roughly whete you are heading and be able to compare with the sat nav.
Also, very often I've found the sat nav will go through the middle of towns and cities, while looking at the map says to take the longer way round.

I'm not sure that attempts at such dissuasion would fall on very fertile ground, given that their phones (and maybe even watches ) have GPS and a compass

And an infinite battery life, and fully waterproof, and ...

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

You hope. I think we've all read reports of people going to the wrong place, going a long way round, following the sat nav into a river, and the like.

One of my early ones, decided that a far too narrow packhorse bridge, down at the end of a rough farm track, was a good idea. My present one, if I enter a destination down south, once firmly on the M1, it likes to take me off the M1, to a roundabout above it, then back down onto the M1.

 

[morqthana]

I still keep a paper road atlas, just in case, and for 'browsing'. It's some 20 years old, but fine for what I use it for, which is to grasp a mental idea of where I am, and what's near, when I'm simply touring an area. Point to point, the satnav is great, and beats the paper map easily, especially as the satnav receives traffic data.

Same here - and, like yours, the paper maps etc. in my car are pretty old, but probably adequate for what they might occasionally be used for.

I have both, and use both, although TBH the use of the paper atlas is far less frequent, and if I was made to have only one it would be the satnav. I use it for journeys where I need no navigation input because it knows if there are traffic problems, and will route me away from them.

But it can't do what I alluded to earlier - if you've got a couple of hundred miles to do, and several hours in which to do it, it can't plan an A to B to C to D to E to F to etc, where A, B, C.. are small villages and the "to's" are country lanes without even a B number, let alone motorways, trunk roads, or A###.

Like music, videos, images - it's digital. Maps are analogue.

 

[morqthana]

I think we've all read reports of people going to the wrong place,

Sat nav cabbie takes Earl Spencer’s daughter to wrong Stamford Bridge

One venue was hosting the clash of London’s football titans while the other was a sleepy Yorkshire village that hosted a famous battle more than 900 years earlier.Unfortunately for Earl Spencer’s

www.thetimes.com

 

[JohnW2]

I've yet to see any device with a large enough display, or a mapping app which does not drop detail when zooming out, such that all of the map data remains displayed when zoomed out to an area of several 100 km².

There's no point in shooting the messenger - you're essentially preaching to the converted. Whilst there is sometimes no choice, I do absolutely everything I can to avoid having to use devices with screens and keyboards as small as a phone, or even tablet (for any purpose other than making/receiving voice calls!).

People have got into serious trouble, requiring emergency rescue (and for all I know actually died) by assuming that their device(s) will always work faultlessly.

Undoubtedly true - and presumably also the same by misreading printed maps?

Occasionally GPS signals are jammed by the military for training purposes.

This is getting a little silly.

I take it you're also not a fan of old travelogues?

I have a lot of interest in old travelogues, as well as old maps and atlases (and other old documents) - but's that's nothing to do with what I regard as useful navigational aids in 2026.

Longevity of the media used for archiving: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_degradation. There's no mainstream digital media which begins to approach the lifetime of vellum or museum-grade cotton paper, but some work is being done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC

The standard way of addressing that issue is surely to regularly copy the archived material to new media, and in updated formats if necessary/appropriate (and, of course, 'multiple copies')?

I doubt you would be able to find any road maps/atlases which are useful today which are printed on "vellum or museum-grade cotton paper" and, even if you did, along with more common materials to print on, they are susceptible to the effects of fire, flood and other environmental issues.

Even the medium is physically intact, what about a functioning device to read it? Will one exist in several hundred years time? .... What hardware interface does it need? Will computers offer it in several hundred years? Will operating systems support it? .... And beyond all the physical stuff, there's the issue of the format of the data, both re the file system used, and the actual file format. ....

I obviously can't speak for what the situation will be in several hundred years time, nor about the changes that will happen in the period between now and then - but in terms of what has happened 'so far', despite many changes in both media, file systems and file/data format, it still seems possible to find people who ('for a price') can 'recover' (into a currently-usable form) almost everything produced by a computer to date. I'm therefore a little surprised to read ...

Obsolescence: File Formats and Software | Digital Preservation Management​

www.dpworkshop.org

We've already lost access to some file formats only decades old.

... and will therefore look at the link for some education (and maybe 'disillusionment' )

That would be a first.