Boiler supply vents on boundary & party wall implication

[MLY]

Our neighbours have boiler supply inlet vents sited in the wall of their kitchen extension on the boundary between our properties (to the rear of our houses). They have been there for some time, long before we moved in two years ago.

We have begun the party wall process in order to build an extension that has a wall right up against this wall as is our right, effectively blocking off their supply air vents.

As we understand it, the siting of these vents contravenes the current building regs as they are on the boundary, however the party wall act has that we should put right anything that causes them loss or damage.

A gas engineer recently told us they will need a new boiler that does not require supply vents - what we are most interested in/worried about is whether we are liable to pay for this new boiler?

Does anyone have any advice on where we might stand here, or experience of a similar situation?

 

[muggles]

Are there no other suitable locations for the vents? Would be much cheaper to move the vent than buy a new boiler

 

[MLY]

Are there no other suitable locations for the vents? Would be much cheaper to move the vent than buy a new boiler

If it is acceptable to duct the supply air to the boiler space within their kitchen from the end wall of the building, then maybe. The impression the gas fitter gave us was that it is not?

 

[muggles]

It's hard to say without seeing the installation but generally vents can go pretty much anywhere within the room. Are you saying that in this case the boiler is in it's own compartment?

 

[D_Hailsham]

As they are inlet vents and not the boiler flue, they do not contravene the regulations over flue location.

Wouldn't it be better to speak to your neighbour, before the formalities of Party Wall Notices, explain what you want to do and see if there is another location for the boiler air inlet? Then offer to pay for the inlet to be relocated.

 

[Agile]

I am not aware of any part of the party wall legislation that would require a neighbour to pay for any changes which are required as a result of any previous action on or across your land which was not permitted by any specific agreement.

Can you post a link or quotation of which part you are relying on to come to that conclusion.

Its relatively new legislation and seems to have been generally poorely drafted and to cause more problems than it solves. One of my customers has spent about £25,000 defending himself from an unemployed barrister who saw his extension as a way to make a bit of money when he ( or his builder? ) started work on the party wall three days early within the required notice period.

There is a scam whereby a surveyor can act for the neighbour in assessing the effects of your building proposals on them and all at YOUR cost. Its so bad that the scamming surveyors write offering their services to neighbours whenever they see a new planning application as "free" because the planning applicant has to pay.

Until I am convinced otherwise, my view is that they have no right to draw air from your land and so you are able, on giving adequate notice, to require them to relocate any air inlet vents at their cost.

Tony

 

[D_Hailsham]

Can you post a link or quotation of which part you are relying on to come to that conclusion.

Who are you asking?

Its relatively new legislation and seems to have been generally poorly drafted and to cause more problems than it solves.

Did you read the Act before making such a sweeping generalisation?

Until I am convinced otherwise, my view is that they have no right to draw air from your land

That's tantamount to saying that you "own" the air above your land. Common sense says that you don't, as the air above your land is continually changing.

 

[Agile]

As in all correct forum postings my replies are directed to the OP.

As far as air on your property is concerned, common sense indicated that you have the right to use the air on your property at least up to the top of your property for breathing, burning fuel etc.

Similarly your neighbour does not have an automatic right to use air specifically drawn from your land across the boundary.

If that were not the case, a neighbour could legitimately erect a very strong fan to blow air across your land to blow washing off your line and lift your wife's skirts as in that early Monroe film.

I have read parts of the legislation when it came out but mostly reply on the views of others on it.

Tony

 

[D_Hailsham]

As far as air on your property is concerned, common sense indicated that you have the right to use the air on your property at least up to the top of your property for breathing, burning fuel etc.

But the air on your property is not a permanent fixture. It is very transient, just passing through on its way from one person's property to another's.

Approved Document J (Combustion Appliances and Fuel Storage Systems) has a lot to say about the location of the flue used to discharge the products of combustion. But there is no advice whatsoever on the location of any vent required to supply air to the appliance.

 

[Agile]

I am sure that human rights entitle everyone to breath air.

However, discharging noxious gases is rightfully carefully controlled.

I am not suggesting that there is no right for the neighbour to draw smaller amounts of air into his property. Just no right to continue drawing it if from the neighbour's garden when that neighbour decided to construct a wall on his land at that point.

Tony

 

[MLY]

I am sure that human rights entitle everyone to breath air.

However, discharging noxious gases is rightfully carefully controlled.

I am not suggesting that there is no right for the neighbour to draw smaller amounts of air into his property. Just no right to continue drawing it if from the neighbour's garden when that neighbour decided to construct a wall on his land at that point.

Tony

Thanks for this input all....this is where we are coming from really, we obviously have a right to build a wall on our land at our boundary, and it is our feeling that the vents shouldn't be there, from what you say you agree they have no right to pull air from it.

If the inlet vents should not be there now anyway, then the party wall issue is irrelevant. It seems wrong somehow (they can't access them to maintain them for a start, fire risk maybe?) but maybe it isn't...if there is some legislation to back us up we would be pleased to have it pointed out to us! The planning permission for the extension was granted in 1973, so the vents may well have been there since then.

Of course, if there is nothing wrong with them pulling air through the boundary wall, then us building a wall up against this will cause their installation to fall foul of ventilation regs presumably, so we are liable to put it right. (The pary wall explanatory booklet says our neighbours have the right be compensated for any loss or damage caused by relevant works - presumable this means services, as well as structural). As suggested we would be much better off offering to relocate the vents than buy them a new boiler!

On this point, we are not sure of the arrangement of the boiler within their kitchen, and whether it is in a compartment or not. They are fairly amicable at the moment and we are able to look in their house when they return from holiday soon. We have a agreed to a surveyor between us but we would like to get a firmer idea of the situation ourselves before things get complicated (as it seems that they might!).

This is just one of the issues, the kitchen extension in question has no foundations...

 

[expertgasman]

As far as I know, if for example, a balanced flue fire was fitted before the regs imsisted on 600mm (?) to a boundary, them the neighbour could not build towards the flue, or HE would be in contravention.

 

[mickyg]

If that were not the case, a neighbour could legitimately erect a very strong fan to blow air across your land to blow washing off your line and lift your wife's skirts as in that early Monroe film.

haha, another classic tonyism. I reckon he's on the source

 

[Agile]

To the OP....

My view is that those rights of compensation to the neighbour are intended to be specifically applied to problems arising from the works being carried out next door but do NOT extend to reinstating air inlet vents which have been used in the past before the neighbours extension is built.

Nor do I agree with the supposition above that a gas fire flue discharging over a neighbour's property ( not subject to any specific agreement ) can create any precedent of established use. It never had any right at any time to discharge over land not in its ownership.

The neighbour never had any rights to enter adjoining land to inspect or maintain the air inlets in their wall. The Party Wall legislation remedied that defect by granting a right in that respect subject to the notice periods and liability for any damage caused.

Tony

 

[kevplumb]

jeeez he's a lawyer now

isn't there a forum for this sort of query ? //www.diynot.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=36

seeing as it has sweet FA to do with plumbing or heating