Business Practice/Payments/Deposits, Etc.

[pbar]

Some manufacturers fit their own yes, not sure if these do, I'd have to check, but that'd be just the same as starting anew.

I might as well start from scratch, if they've got to come out, measure up, go away and make them, come back and fit them, then where's the actual saving in time or resources?

Not sure what you think the advantage would be.

 

[Blasphemous]

I give up!

 

[Shytalkz]

 

[pbar]

I give up!

At the end of the day, I wouldn't pay £1300 pro-forma to have a job done.
Neither would you.
Yes, it's obvious I'm going elsewhere to get the job done.

 

[Bilioustrumpstaine]

Sounds like your guy has a huge cashflow problem and would normally buy the windows and then invoice you and then pay his suppliers.

If you have liked his work and him in the past it would be worthwhile asking him why you need to pay up front and see what he says, you could come to an arrangement. I would rather have a guy that I know fit my windows than start again looking for contractors.

 

[gremlin16]

So what guarantee have you given the trade person.
Does he have to take your word that he will be paid in full on completion.

When a customer starts complaining about the deposit then I start to doubt their ability or willingness to pay in full., and bye bye.

Not all tradesmen have accounts with suppliers, and need to pay on collection.
Most suppliers now insist that special orders are paid for prior to ordering, so who's going to be out of pocket. Thats where your deposit comes in, that is if you ever intended paying him. ?

 

[pbar]

Jeeeezzz, it sounds like you've been having a bad day, either that or you have a series of bad payers behind you, and there's usually a reason for that, customer's unhappy, bad workmanship, etc. but I wouldn't like to make assumptions about your character, but then again, you are.

Yes, a deposit is fine and quite normal to show one's commitment to the job, but to ask for almost 50% pro-forma - WTF?!

Ask yourself, would you be happy to give £1300 to someone before they start a job for you. No, I didn't think so, which puts you in the same mindset as me.

 

[jbonding]

Ask yourself would you be willing to buy some windows for a complete stranger (fair enough they worked for you in the past and you paid up) for £1300 and then be told theyve changed their mind?
fair enough it might seem strange asking for 48% of the price but if 1,2 or 3 customers pulled out it could ruin a small business ie "we dont want to go bankrupt."

Also you were happy with their work and price in the past so trust goes both ways. Times are getting harder and prices are getting tighter and tighter (so are customers) so you could go with the bigger price for less deposit but no guarantees they wont go to the wall.

I never ask for a penny upfront but im a plasterer and materials are quite cheap and go a long way.

 

[pbar]

If I went into a contract with someone to have work done and they ordered materials, and I backed out, I would expect to be either taken to court or beaten up. Or both. But then again it's not something that I have ever done, or would do. But what guarantee does any tradesman have with any job or any customer?

None, I guess, which is why we have deposits, and there's no problem with that, it's quite normal. And like you say, 48% is strange, so I'm not sure if you're actually disagreeing with my points or not, sounds like you agree with me to be honest.

To my mind, the guy is trying to get his customers to pay for all his materials pro-forma, so in effect his purchase ledger would be zero. It would be brilliant to run a business like that, but would mean that he'll be asking all his custmers for large payments up front on all his jobs. How many customers will go for that? I should think he'd lose a lot of custom, as everyone I've spoken to, including every single poster on this thread (from what I can gather) agrees with me that they wouldn't pay so much up front for work to be done either.

I agree with Bilioustrumpstaine, sounds like he has cash problems, trade account on stop perhaps, owes supplier money maybe, who knows. But is he helping his business by asking for such large payments up front?

 

[Shytalkz]

He may be on stop, he may not even have a trade account, his cashflow might be suffering, his bank might have turned his business overdraft into a loan, or withdrawn the facility altogether, he may be having a run of bad experiences with clients either delaying or not paying; and, indeed the same may also be true of the window manufacturer.

In short, there is a myriad of possibilities as to why he's asked you to pay for the windows, with a cheque - made out directly to the window supplier, not him.

As an SE, all my work used to be done on account, but, with 30 days often stretching to 90 in these times, for larger fee jobs I ask for 1/3 to 1/2 up front and don't do any work until I get it. If - and I'm not aware of it being the case - I've lost work because of it, then all well and good, it's not a client I would want in the first place.

Business to business transactions have often stretched terms. Now, with the credit crunch, it's not unusual to find Joe Public using it as an excuse to either delay payment, or not pay at all. Trust is a two-way thing, now more so than ever.

 

[Rico99]

pb,

Would it have made a difference to you if the guy had asked for the chq in his company name instead of the supplier. That would have me worried more.

At least you know that you're going to have you windows made and you can then pick whoever you want to come and install them.

I have to agree with Bilious, if you are worried about the windows being wrong (don't know why they would be), then get the manufacturer to come and measure them up and just pay your guy to install them.

As I said I see NO problem in doing what the guy has asked as you are not paying HIM you are paying for YOUR windows.

Rico

 

[Blasphemous]

I have to agree with Bilious, if you are worried about the windows being wrong (don't know why they would be), then get the manufacturer to come and measure them up and just pay your guy to install them.

Except Bilious didn't say that, I did.

 

[Rico99]

My Bad

Please accept my humblest apologies.

Rico

 

[Blasphemous]

My Bad

Please accept my humblest apologies.

Rico

No need to apologise Rico bud. No worries.

 

[pbar]

pb,

Would it have made a difference to you if the guy had asked for the chq in his company name instead of the supplier. That would have me worried more.

At least you know that you're going to have you windows made and you can then pick whoever you want to come and install them.

I have to agree with Bilious, if you are worried about the windows being wrong (don't know why they would be), then get the manufacturer to come and measure them up and just pay your guy to install them.

As I said I see NO problem in doing what the guy has asked as you are not paying HIM you are paying for YOUR windows.

Rico

I see your points there, but I am not their customer, the Window guy is. I would prefer to go direct to them and become the customer and pay direct. Except that I wouldn't get them at the trade price that he will be, so it wouldn't be worth it. If I was to hand over the cheque, and the windows were wrong in some way (it could be all sorts of things, wrong openings, styles, etc.) I'd be left with stuff I didn't want that I've paid for. Far too dangerous surely. I would rather pay the window guy direct, he's the guy doing the job, any errors are then his to sort out. I could get the manufacturers to measure yes, but then it'd be a new job, from scratch, at their rates, I could have done that from the off, and I might be yet.
I would never pay £1300 to buy something that someone else has measured and ordered, just too dangerous surely.
No, there's nothing wrong with what the guy is asking, it's up to him to run his business how he wants to, and it's nothing to do with me. But I still don't know anyone who would pay £1300 up front for windows. And if he'd have said he'd be wanting almost half the money pro-forma, I'd have politley declined and saved us both a lot of trouble.
A reasonable deposit, payable to him would have been fine however, and there's nothing unusual about that. But it's not how he's working at the moment.
I can only assume he's got a series of non paying clients, and again, that scares the hell out of me.