Business Practice/Payments/Deposits, Etc.

[Rico99]

I still don't understand what the problem is.

If and it's a big IF, the windows are wrong then it is stil up to your guy to sort even if you pay for them direct, all he is asking you to do is pay for them direct, whatever the reason maybe, it still speeds the payment process up and as it has already been said, if you pay for them by credit card any problems and you can get the money from your c/c company.

Don't be worried about any reasons why other customers may not have paid your fitter, that could judt be down to people not wanting to pay for what ever reason.

If you are happy with the work he has done for you in the past, then just do as he is asking and get the work done.

You may find that you put this guy off, waste time looking for someone else and then they ask you for the same terms, but you wont know who they are.

Rico

 

[Bilioustrumpstaine]

I still don't understand what the problem is.

If you are happy with the work he has done for you in the past, then just do as he is asking and get the work done.

You may find that you put this guy off, waste time looking for someone else and then they ask you for the same terms, but you wont know who they are.

Rico

I agree with that.

The guy probably has some cashflow problems, his wife probably does the books and when hubby has come home with the go ahead for the job she has probably asked where he is going to get the money to pay for the materials as the cupboard is bare. She has made the phone call and not handled it too well (mentioning bankrupcy when asking for money up front would worry me to death)

If the guy had gone back to pb in person and said that he was having a cashflow problem and couldn't afford to buy the windows and how would pb feel about coming down and paying for them at the supplier and then the guy fitted them for the balance of the quote perhaps the outcome would have been different.

There is nothing here that can't be sorted over a cup of tea and a chat

 

[Blasphemous]

I think you guys are starting to get to where I was. That's why I said...

I give up!

 

[pbar]

Thanks for your replies.
I think, and everyone else it seems is of the same opinion, that £1300 is simply too much to ask someone to pay up front, for a job to be done.
The last poster mentioned being scared to hell, and I have to agree with that term, it's an awful big up front payment, but they seem to be adamant that that's how they do things now, I'd love for it to be sorted over a drink and a chat, really.

If they did come in wrong, he's not going to have the money to pay for new one's in a couple of weeks, if he can't now, so the onus will fall to me to pay again. Plus, it's open to arguing isn't it, 'I asked for an opening window there', I'm sure you didn't, yes I did, etc. etc. Getting someone else to pay is a very good escape route for him, in many ways.
In fact, my trust in him has gone to be honest. I'm even inclined to think that he thinks I might not like them, or he's asked for something slightly different than I wanted, which is why he wants me to pay.

Can't help but feel suspicious. Or perhaps he thinks he can get away with it with me, as I've been such a good payer in the past.
I've already put them on hold until I've thought about this and got other opinions. I have a couple of other companies coming to price up now, and I'll cancel them with him. I'll politely decline.

Like everyone else, I don't want to pay £1300 up front for a job to be done, it's far too great a risk, and I've yet to find someone who would pay up.
Every other company I've asked say that you don't pay a thing until they're fitted. Which is perfectly normal and of no risk to the customer of course.
Although I would have paid a deposit to show my commitment to the job.
But there you go.

 

[Bilioustrumpstaine]

I think you guys are starting to get to where I was. That's why I said...

I give up!

Yup

 

[pbar]

I think you guys are starting to get to where I was. That's why I said...

I give up!

Yup

I already have.

Yeah, like YOU'D pay £1300 up front.

 

[toptec]

Pbar.

I have had a couple of grands worth of windows fitted recently through a local company. I paid £178 deposit. The company rep just pulled that figure out of the air.

If he had asked for 50%, in my case £1,150, I would have told him to swing. I am not in the business to prop up some firms cash flow problems. The day they are fitted the bill is settled.

I have employed, plasters, electricians, RGI's and groundworkers over the past 14 months and not one of them asked for more than a deposit on the job. Stage payments were fine.

I would give your fitter a call and offer a deposit as per previous jobs with him. If he says no then move on. Find another.

 

[pbar]

Pbar.

I have had a couple of grands worth of windows fitted recently through a local company. I paid £178 deposit. The company rep just pulled that figure out of the air.

If he had asked for 50%, in my case £1,150, I would have told him to swing. I am not in the business to prop up some firms cash flow problems. The day they are fitted the bill is settled.

I have employed, plasters, electricians, RGI's and groundworkers over the past 14 months and not one of them asked for more than a deposit on the job. Stage payments were fine.

I would give your fitter a call and offer a deposit as per previous jobs with him. If he says no then move on. Find another.

Thanks for your post and advice. It seems you're in the same mindset as I am.
The window guy never asked for pro-forma payments before, but I would have paid a reasonable deposit no problem. But he won't budge.
So I'm looking elsewhere and in fact have had someone else round tonight.
Cheers.

 

[gremlin16]

What a stupid thread.

The answer is so easy.

Customer does not want to pay the manufacturer. Fine don't.

Yet the customer want the windows for same trade price that installer pays.

The customer does not trust the installer with his/her deposit. Fine don't pay till the jobs completed.

Customer still thinks it a con. Fine tell installer that they are going elsewhere.

Now a role reversal

Installer pays supplier for materials. Now he has loaned the customer X amount of ££££ interest free.

The installer buys and collects material and customer expect it for trade price. (In your dreams )
(ask Tesco to sell you groceries for cost price)

Why should the installer trust you to pay up on completion

Installer thinks hes going to get stung. Fine tell customer to go con some one else.

Trust is a two way process. If there is doubt on both sides then its time to part company.

Our estimates request a 50% deposit. We rarely take it but when customer refuses point blank then whats the chances of being paid on completion of work, possibly 50-50.

We all see a programmes about rogue traders, its a real shame there is not enough air time to show rouge customers.

 

[pbar]

What a stupid thread.

The answer is so easy.

Customer does not want to pay the manufacturer. Fine don't.

Yet the customer want the windows for same trade price that installer pays.

The customer does not trust the installer with his/her deposit. Fine don't pay till the jobs completed.

Customer still thinks it a con. Fine tell installer that they are going elsewhere.

Now a role reversal

Installer pays supplier for materials. Now he has loaned the customer X amount of ££££ interest free.

The installer buys and collects material and customer expect it for trade price. (In your dreams )
(ask Tesco to sell you groceries for cost price)

Why should the installer trust you to pay up on completion

Installer thinks hes going to get stung. Fine tell customer to go con some one else.

Trust is a two way process. If there is doubt on both sides then its time to part company.

Our estimates request a 50% deposit. We rarely take it but when customer refuses point blank then whats the chances of being paid on completion of work, possibly 50-50.

We all see a programmes about rogue traders, its a real shame there is not enough air time to show rouge customers.

What a silly post
Would YOU pay £1300 pro-forma to a window company. No, thought not.

 

[Softus]

There was a strange silence when I said about trade accounts, and why it's odd to ask for a 48% deposit, and she didn't really have an answer.

Why should she have an answer? Put it another way - why should she have to have an answer?

I've put the job on hold for now, as I think it's far too risky paying such a large amount up front, and has many pitfalls.

If it's so risky for you, why are you asking the installer to take all the risk?

Why not suggest a compromise, whereby you pay 25% up front, which means that he also pays out 25%?

It must be great (as a business) if you can get every customer to buy the materials for you, you'd have a purchase ledger of...zero.

Why is that "great"?

 

[pbar]

There was a strange silence when I said about trade accounts, and why it's odd to ask for a 48% deposit, and she didn't really have an answer.

Why should she have an answer? Put it another way - why should she have to have an answer?

I've put the job on hold for now, as I think it's far too risky paying such a large amount up front, and has many pitfalls.

If it's so risky for you, why are you asking the installer to take all the risk?

Why not suggest a compromise, whereby you pay 25% up front, which means that he also pays out 25%?

It must be great (as a business) if you can get every customer to buy the materials for you, you'd have a purchase ledger of...zero.

Why is that "great"?

Hi Softus, thanks for your post, to answer your points -

1. She shouldn't HAVE to have an answer, it was just awkwardly strange. That's all.

2. Surely every tradesman in every trade takes a risk when they buy materials. Isn't that normal? Although the risk is low in my case, I've had lots of jobs done, paid on the dot every time, even going out of my way to pay people, as I have done with him in the past, and he knows so, and he knows me. But he doesn't have to take all the risk, I would pay a deposit of course, but he doesn't wish to budge on almost 50%, £1300.

3. 25% is much better, but as I said, he won't budge.

4. It is great if your purchase ledger is zero, because you have no outlays, would not run up a trade account, would not have to buy materials, as the customer is doing it for you. Would have thought all that was obvious? Wouldn't it be great to have a business where you don't actually buy any materials yourself? Surely everyone would love a purchase ledger of zero amount, or close to it.

Everyone seems to agree with me, that they wouldn't pay £1300 up front for windows, both on here and in 'real life'.
It's up to him to run his business as he wants to and that's none of my business, but I don't wish to accept those terms so have chosen to go elsewhere, that's my right and there's plenty of window people about, I've made sure to leave this on good terms which I think is important, I'll get someone else to do them and I'll pay straight away when they're done, as always. With a reasonable deposit beforehand if that's asked for, no problem, although they usually don't.

 

[pbar]

I think B-A-S has got it right with his previous post, and I think everyone would echo this -

'My mum has had a few small building jobs done by a local company, been in business for years, good WOM rep etc, and he told her never EVER pay for anything which has not been done or delivered.

Stage payments are fine, but not a penny in advance....'


Although I would pay a small deposit, nothing untoward about that.

Think that's a good way to close this thread as enough's been said.

Raise a glass to your mum for me B-A-S, I will heed this advice.

 

[AtoZ]

trust and confidence

pbar
have you thought that you will be paying more from a company that doesnt require the upfront payment.

you are as equally wrong here as the builder.
if you have had work by him before then you must have been happy enough with it to engage him again.
surly that throws all your 'fitting/sizing' arguments in the skip.

you have fears but so does that builder, im sure you can find a compromise.

toptec mentioned looking for another fitter. do fitters (who might have been a kwick fit fitter the day before) build the porch too?

whatever hes done or employed over 14 months does not apply now, things change.


and when we read a thread like this we can see how things have changed for the worse..
trust and confidence.

 

[pbar]

trust and confidence

pbar
have you thought that you will be paying more from a company that doesnt require the upfront payment.

you are as equally wrong here as the builder.
if you have had work by him before then you must have been happy enough with it to engage him again.
surly that throws all your 'fitting/sizing' arguments in the skip.

you have fears but so does that builder, im sure you can find a compromise.

toptec mentioned looking for another fitter. do fitters (who might have been a kwick fit fitter the day before) build the porch too?

whatever hes done or employed over 14 months does not apply now, things change.


and when we read a thread like this we can see how things have changed for the worse..
trust and confidence.

Yes, I'd pay...say a 25% deposit, don't think that's unreasonable, but he won't budge from almost 50%, as I've already said a couple of times.
Yes, I am prepared to pay more if necessary from someone else, to remove the risk of an up front payment which is so high.
The porch is already there, no building required, it's window replacement.
Yes, trust is a 2 way thing, but he's asking for the whole amount from me for the materials, so there's absolutely no trust on his part is there?
Would you pay £1300 pro-forma for windows to be fitted? Thought not, neither will I.