Can you have a socket on a 20A ring?

[EFLImpudence]

Just out of interest - as it was (spuriously) introduced,

if Britain went metric, would the speed limit on the motorway be 112.654kph or raised to 74.5645mph as it is here?

 

[JohnW2]

Just out of interest - as it was (spuriously) introduced, if Britain went metric, would the speed limit on the motorway be 112.654kph or raised to 74.5645mph as it is here?

Obviously not the former, but not necessarily either.

That's the thing about national laws and regulations - they are locally decided, by people who don't necessarily have the same ideas and attitudes as do people elsewhere.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Boilers do have fuses in them. (Winston said that at the beginning.)

But they might not have done when the requirement (if there is one) was mandated in the gas regs.

If there is such a requirement then UK boiler makers would have lobbied hard for it to be made an external one, not internal. If there's a like requirement in other countries the boiler makers would have not had that option. And it's likely by now that either there are no "UK" boiler makers left, or they've all had to make their products compliant with the regulations that apply in other countries where they want to sell.

Unless we know whether our gas regulations require the supply to be fused at 3A we cannot comment on the inappropriateness of it.

But if there is such a requirement then, inappropriate or not, it exists, and may not be ignored.

 

[EFLImpudence]

But they might not have done when the requirement (if there is one) was mandated in the gas regs.

Might?
Do you mean that it would therefore no longer be required?

If there is such a requirement then UK boiler makers would have lobbied hard for it to be made an external one, not internal.

If?
Why would they do that and not be told it was their responsibility to safeguard their product.

If there's a like requirement in other countries the boiler makers would have not had that option.

If?
Exactly what I (and Winston) have been saying.

And it's likely by now that either there are no "UK" boiler makers left, or they've all had to make their products compliant with the regulations that apply in other countries where they want to sell.

Exactly what I (and Winston) have been saying - and vice versa what would happen?

Unless we know whether our gas regulations require the supply to be fused at 3A we cannot comment on the inappropriateness of it.

If they do we can; if they don't there is no need.

But if there is such a requirement then, inappropriate or not, it exists, and may not be ignored.

If?
Except it will be ignored in the rest of the world and therefore unnecessary in Britain.

 

[JohnW2]

... Except it will be ignored in the rest of the world and therefore unnecessary in Britain.

As I think you probably realise, I'm essentially 'with you' (certainly in terms of 'common sense').

However, in relation to the general argument, I'm sure that we could all think of some things that are regarded as 'unnecessary' in some parts of the world which many people (and maybe regulators/legislators) would consider to be 'necessary' in the UK.

Kind Regards, John

 

[mwatsonxx]

Mmmm. That also just raises the question of what they do in the rest of the world.

No it does not.

 

[EFLImpudence]

As I think you probably realise, I'm essentially 'with you' (certainly in terms of 'common sense').

Yes.

However, in relation to the general argument, I'm sure that we could all think of some things that are regarded as 'unnecessary' in some parts of the world which many people (and maybe regulators/legislators) would consider to be 'necessary' in the UK.

Maybe, but that just raises the question "Is it really 'necessary' in the UK?"

I'm not sure it is a 'general argument'; I think it is rather specific in that world-wide products cannot require different protection only in countries which utilise that protection.
It boils down to - boilers (and much simpler to refute, extractor fans) require 3A protection in Britain because the ring final circuit was devised after the war.

 

[EFLImpudence]

No it does not.

Yes, it does.

 

[JohnW2]

Maybe, but that just raises the question "Is it really 'necessary' in the UK?"

As a fairly dramatic example, try asking that question about 'gun control' on both sides of the Atlantic.

I suppose the crux of what I am saying is that opinions as to what is "necessary" can vary considerably - and it's often not the case that some of the opinions are 'definitely right' and others are 'definitely wrong'. Opinions, are, after all, 'a matter of opinion' .

Kind Regards, John

 

[mwatsonxx]

Yes, it does.

No it doesn't

 

[mwatsonxx]

Opinions, are, after all, 'a matter of opinion' .

Thats right they are worthless, so now you can shut up.

 

[EFLImpudence]

As a fairly dramatic example, try asking that question about 'gun control' on both sides of the Atlantic.

I did think of that as a possible example but it is like the speed limit, not valid because it is not just a difference of opinion leading to different regulations.

Britain did not decide to have 3A protection (for boilers) as a principle; it only uses them because they had been introduced because of something else.
It is just the equivalent of your choice to use the lowest value fuse because they exist, and you may as well, but that is not a reason to mandate them when, if they did not exist and there were no need for them, you would think nothing of it.

It would be more logical to require 13A fuses for boilers (if the cable is adequate) as that would be the nearest Britain has to the 16A circuit protection to which boiler manufacturers expect their product to be connected.

 

[JohnW2]

I did think of that as a possible example but it is like the speed limit, not valid because it is not just a difference of opinion leading to different regulations.

What, then, are the reasons for the different regulations, if not a difference in opinion as regards what is 'necessary'/'needed'/'desirable'?

It would be more logical to require 13A fuses for boilers (if the cable is adequate) as that would be the nearest Britain has to the 16A circuit protection to which boiler manufacturers expect their product to be connected.

Yes, that probably would be more logical ... or, more generally, it would be logical for them to require protection 'no greater than 16A', thereby allowing use with a 16A MCB (or 15A fuse) without the need for any additional external fusing.

However, as you are aware, regulations and practices do not necessarily have a lot to do with logic - and there is not a lot of point in our discussing the fact that particular regulations do not appear to be very logical, given that none of us are going to change those regs. We simply have to live with them and, according to one's views and 'situation' either comply with them or (if one considers them illogical, and is in a position to do so) ignore them.

Kind Regards, john

 

[EFLImpudence]

What, then, are the reasons for the different regulations, if not a difference in opinion as regards what is 'necessary'/'needed'/'desirable'?

Yes, but you (and Bas) are not recognising the fact that BS1362 fuses were only invented so that lower rated cable could be used on a 32A circuit.

Had that not been the case, Britain would likely not have them either.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, but you (and Bas) are not recognising the fact that BS1362 fuses were only invented so that lower rated cable could be used on a 32A circuit.

I recognise that, and I imagine that BAS does also.

Had that not been the case, Britain would likely not have them either.

Very true - but it was the case, and so the UK does have them, and that clock is not going to be put in reverse.

As I just wrote, we have to live with the regulations we have, and choose either to comply with them or ignore them. Discussing what 'could or should have been' is not going to achieve anything.

Kind Regards, John