Can you have a socket on a 20A ring?

[EFLImpudence]

As I just wrote, we have to live with the regulations we have, and choose either to comply with them or ignore them. Discussing what 'could or should have been' is not going to achieve anything.

The discussion is not about what should have been -

it is that if the rest of the world doesn't have them, then 3A boiler protection cannot be necessary.




We must discover whether it is a regulation, I suppose.

 

[JohnW2]

.... it is that if the rest of the world doesn't have them, then 3A boiler protection cannot be necessary.

It presumably means that the 'rest of the world' do not consider it 'necessary' to have greater protection than 16A but, as I keep saying, that does not preclude the possibility that the UK might decide ('in it's opinion') that greater protection was necessary.

We must discover whether it is a regulation, I suppose.

Indeed so. In the past this discussion has usually related to MIs, which do not necessarily have to be complied with. However, if there really is such a regulation, that would move the goalposts.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Might?
Do you mean that it would therefore no longer be required?

Even if not, then until it's removed from the regulations it remains a requirement, whether you like it or not.

If?
Why would they do that and not be told it was their responsibility to safeguard their product.

Because that's not the way things work. They would have lobbied hard against being forced to redesign their products (any manufacturer would), and TBF, it would have made it quicker to implement the requirement if it was done via the fuse in the plug/FCU.

If?
Exactly what I (and Winston) have been saying.

It matters not one iota how often you say it. If it is in our regulations then it is there whether either of you like it or not, and its absence from regulations in other countries is irrelevant.

Exactly what I (and Winston) have been saying - and vice versa what would happen?

Irrelevant - if it is in our regulations then it is there whether other countries have it or not, and whether either of you like it or not.

If they do we can; if they don't there is no need.

Irrelevant - if it is in our regulations then it is there whether other countries have it or not, and whether you like it or not.

If?
Except it will be ignored in the rest of the world and therefore unnecessary in Britain.

Irrelevant - if it is in our regulations then it is there whether other countries have it or not, and whether you like it or not.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Britain did not decide to have 3A protection (for boilers) as a principle; it only uses them because they had been introduced because of something else.

Possibly with as little reason and as much uninformed opinion as metal CUs and fire-resistant cable supports.

It would be more logical to require 13A fuses for boilers (if the cable is adequate) as that would be the nearest Britain has to the 16A circuit protection to which boiler manufacturers expect their product to be connected.

Be that as it may....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes, but you (and Bas) are not recognising the fact that BS1362 fuses were only invented so that lower rated cable could be used on a 32A circuit.

I can't speak for John, but I am certainly not failing to recognise that.

But it's irrelevant.

Had that not been the case, Britain would likely not have them either.

Be that as it may....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The discussion is not about what should have been -

it is that if the rest of the world doesn't have them, then 3A boiler protection cannot be necessary.

Be that as it may....

We must discover whether it is a regulation, I suppose.

That would be jolly useful.

 

[JohnW2]

I can't speak for John, but I am certainly not failing to recognise that.

I recognise that, and I imagine that BAS does also.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Be that as it may...

What you have deemed irrelevant is the very point I am discussing from which you two keep veering. Namely:

it is that if the rest of the world doesn't have them, then 3A boiler protection cannot be necessary.

That it might be a regulation does not alter that.


I think you have actually agreed by saying:

Possibly with as little reason and as much uninformed opinion as metal CUs and fire-resistant cable supports.

 

[JohnW2]

.... the very point I am discussing from which you two keep veering. Namely: .... That it might be a regulation does not alter that. .... I think you have actually agreed by saying:

I have agreed several times (and countless times in the past) that the regulation is not necessarily logical, but, IF it is a regulation (and, as we've all said, that needs to be clarified), then it is a/the regulation - for people to comply with or ignore as they choose. ... and no amount of discussion, debate or argument will change that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

OK, I don't disagree. Maybe it's to protect the wires running from the boiler terminals to its internal components. Whatever the case, as we are the UK, manufacturers stipulate that the fused spur to the boiler should still be fitted with a 3A fuse, or possibly less in the case of
Some heating systems also have external components such as programmers, thermostats, motorised valves pump etc., which won't have internal fuses and will be supplied via the same fused spur.

The external components are supplied via the boiler. The fuse is to protect the cable to the boiler as I said. Manufacturers instructions are for guidance only and don't have to be followed if they are wrong as they clearly are in this case.

 

[winston1]

Maybe in those countries the gas regulations are different.

Gas regulations are nothing to do with electrics.

 

[winston1]

Is it not conceivable that in locations where 3A fuses in the supply are not an option, their gas regulations require the makers to install them in their devices?

Could well be why boilers are internally fused at around 2 to 3 amps.

 

[winston1]

It boils down to - boilers (and much simpler to refute, extractor fans) require 3A protection in Britain because the ring final circuit was devised after the war.

Nothing to do with ring finals. Boilers are protected internally. No need for external protection apart from to protect the connecting cable.

 

[JohnW2]

Is it not conceivable that in locations where 3A fuses in the supply are not an option, their gas regulations require the makers to install them in their devices?

Could well be why boilers are internally fused at around 2 to 3 amps.

Gas regulations are nothing to do with electrics.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Nothing to do with ring finals. Boilers are protected internally. No need for external protection apart from to protect the connecting cable.

I agree.

I think you have missed my sarcasm.

I am pointing out that 3A 1362 fuses only exist, and so can only be used, because the ring was devised.