ceiling heating (in Italy)

[Wildgoose69]

Heat is radiation and doesn't rise. Hot air rises because it is less dense than cold air. Ceiling heating correctly installed with insulating reflector backing on plasterboard is one of the most efficient and cost effective heating technologies! This is because radiant heat warms objects and not the air which may be warmed by the objects. It is pure infrared just like sunlight. It heats you almoSt instantly like turning on a light bulb so you don't need to warm a room if it is unoccupied. This makes it much cheaper to run than gas and even storage heaters and is actually healthier. Floor heating needs protection from electromagnetic fields and can be uncomfortable and taxing on lower limb circulation. I am looking for a radiant heating thermostat system that I can couple with deskworker pir sensor that would override the timer each time a room is occupied and that can switch between a base temperature and a higher one on pir sensor activity. Can anyone help?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Heat is radiation and doesn't rise. Hot air rises because it is less dense than cold air. Ceiling heating correctly installed with insulating reflector backing on plasterboard is one of the most efficient and cost effective heating technologies!

Don't be ridiculous.

This is because radiant heat warms objects and not the air which may be warmed by the objects.

So you think that being in a room where the air is cold but you can feel IR radiation on your head will be comfortable?

It is pure infrared just like sunlight.

Tell us then, o wise one, why in a meteorological context it's always the shade temperature which is given? Could it be because it's actually the air temperature which matters, not the amount of IR coming from the Sun? If you're up a snow covered mountain, and the Sun's radiation is so strong that it will burn you, why do you still need warm clothes? Could it be because it's actually the air temperature which matters?

It heats you almoSt instantly like turning on a light bulb so you don't need to warm a room if it is unoccupied.

So you think you could walk into a cold room, with cold air, cold surfaces, cold furniture, and be perfectly comfortable because of IR from the ceiling?

Floor heating needs protection from electromagnetic fields

¿Que?

 

[kbdiy]

I can imagine any floor above the one installed with ceiling heating would be most grateful for the added input! No need to wear slippers!

As for it being cheaper than gas ......

 

[Corgigrouch]

Ha! The Yanks played with heated ceilings....They leaked a lot, ruined the decor and only really worked if the roon was built upside down....

 

[Corgigrouch]

All we need now is for someone to come on here to announce that they have invented underfloor heating and fan coils....Oh and there is a brand new alloy that can be used for heating pipes..... We call it copper

.......Sigh

 

[Wildgoose69]

Moderator 11 the one declared why do you need some parmesan cheese sent? Where are you?

 

[Wildgoose69]

Heat is radiation and doesn't rise. Hot air rises because it is less dense than cold air. Ceiling heating correctly installed with insulating reflector backing on plasterboard is one of the most efficient and cost effective heating technologies!

Don't be ridiculous.

@@@As a newbie I am not used ti quoting method yet. It's physics mate. Go read a book. Radiation from a point source is spherical 360 which is why a reflector is useful. Even if nobody likes the French they regularly use ceiling heating with electrical carbon semiconductor film@@@

This is because radiant heat warms objects and not the air which may be warmed by the objects.

So you think that being in a room where the air is cold but you can feel IR radiation on your head will be comfortable?
@@@It's not as simple as that. In operation the air is never cold but as opposed to convection the air is heated "last" rather than first and is no longer the main heat carrier.@@@

It is pure infrared just like sunlight.

Tell us then, o wise one, why in a meteorological context it's always the shade temperature which is given? Could it be because it's actually the air temperature which matters, not the amount of IR coming from the Sun? If you're up a snow covered mountain, and the Sun's radiation is so strong that it will burn you, why do you still need warm clothes? Could it be because it's actually the air temperature which matters?
@@@No need to be smarmy' what heats you? The sun's rays heating the world for billions of years in 4kelvin outer space or the air heated by the sun's rays?@@@

It heats you almoSt instantly like turning on a light bulb so you don't need to warm a room if it is unoccupied.

So you think you could walk into a cold room, with cold air, cold surfaces, cold furniture, and be perfectly comfortable because of IR from the ceiling?
@@@the furniture will "attract" the heat until it reaches thermal equilibrium so there needs to be a minimum temperature and when you occupy the room the thermostat needs to be set at comfort level.

Floor heating needs protection from electromagnetic fields

¿Que?

@@@I won't go further into this with you cos I can't be bothered. Would someone advise on where to get suitable electrical radiant heating controls. I don't wish to enter into a fruitless debate. Maybe I'm wrong but after 3 years of research and testing various solutions I don't much care for ban the sheds' opinion and Up Chelsea, talking of The Shed Ciao,@@@
Wildgoose69

EDIT for Ban the Sheds' basic erudition see Wikipedia on Radiant Heating. It's not perfect but it's a start

 

[Onetap]

http://www.frenger.co.uk/Documents/Literature/LT_Atrium.pdf

Old technology, mainly used in prisons, hospital or labs where there's no wall space or wall-mounted radiators can't be used.

Black bulb sensor, lots of manufacturers make them, Sontay for example.


UFH is more comfortable than hot head type systems.

 

[Wildgoose69]

http://www.frenger.co.uk/Documents/Literature/LT_Atrium.pdf

Old technology, mainly used in prisons, hospital or labs where there's no wall space or wall-mounted radiators can't be used.

Black bulb sensor, lots of manufacturers make them, Sontay for example.


UFH is more comfortable than hot head type systems.

Ok for sensors but controllers? Any suggestions for smart/flexible

 

[Onetap]

Find a local controls contractor.

The off-the-shelf controllers are intended to deal with a limited number of standard domestic arrangements. Anything unusual needs a programmable (flexible) controller; programming is NOT simple, it is NOT cheap. The manuals (there are several) are 60mm+ thick.

Tekmar(USA) do domestic controllers for many options; for anything they don't cover you'd be heading for a BMS type programmable controller system.

PS I've seen radiant panels controlled by TRVs with remote sensors.

 

[Boilerman2]

As someone has already told you "SONTAY" they make black Bulb detectors and the ASSOCIATED CONTROLLERS they will even provide the Valves and Actuators

 

[Wildgoose69]

As someone has already told you "SONTAY" they make black Bulb detectors and the ASSOCIATED CONTROLLERS they will even provide the Valves and Actuators

Ta. This is electric heating tho

 

[Agile]

Are you using an ex-pat filter?

 

[Wildgoose69]

Are you using an ex-pat filter?

Dunno. Wossat and why do you ask?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

@@@As a newbie I am not used ti quoting method yet.

And even when you see all the [quote] [/quote] tags in a post you can't be bothered to do the courtesy of spending a couple of minutes learning how it works.

@@@It's not as simple as that. In operation the air is never cold but as opposed to convection the air is heated "last" rather than first and is no longer the main heat carrier.@@@

That doesn't answer my question.

@@@No need to be smarmy' what heats you? The sun's rays heating the world for billions of years in 4kelvin outer space or the air heated by the sun's rays?@@@

That doesn't answer my question.

@@@the furniture will "attract" the heat until it reaches thermal equilibrium so there needs to be a minimum temperature and when you occupy the room the thermostat needs to be set at comfort level.

So you are going to use the heating system to heat up the air, the surfaces, and the objects in the room.

@@@I won't go further into this with you cos I can't be bothered.

That is not the reason why you don't want to explain your statement "Floor heating needs protection from electromagnetic fields"

EDIT for Ban the Sheds' basic erudition see Wikipedia on Radiant Heating. It's not perfect but it's a start

I don't really need that basic erudition, as I know how radiant heating works, and where it is useful (even if it actually should not be used in those places).

But it would be interesting to know, now that your 3 years of research and testing various solutions has turned you into such an expert that you know with utter confidence that ceiling heating is the best thing, and that all those who use other forms of heating only do so out of ignorance, why you've not learned about the control systems.