Click flameguard downlighter

[bolst3r]

So need to get 30 or so down lighters and someone has recommended click ones, I took at look at them and they look quite nice but the whole kit is about £16 a pop (inc vat). My sparky said they were best as I could wire them up, leave the bulbs and the last light out on the run so he could put 500v through them to test the integrity of the wiring which is fair enough. But are there any other decent looking lights with a similar block connector and plugs for the transformer? I'm looking for 12v 50W halogen spots satin chrome with fire hood. Or does someone know a place where I can get them at a better price????

Thanks

 

[ericmark]

30 x 50 = 1500W or 6.5A and most lighting circuits are limited to 6A because somewhere a ceiling rose is used as junction box and they are only rated at 6A plus it would not comply with Part L building regulations.

With tungsten lamps being withdrawn you may also have problems getting lamps in the future so seems rather silly to pay loads of money on a system which can only use tocH candle output LED lights in the future. Using low voltage (230v) GU10 would seem better option as they will take the cold cathode energy saving lamps in the future.

Also have you realised how much heat you get from 30 x 50W bulbs you will also need to install air conditioning to remove the heat.

The NEXT store in Chester I worked on had 6 x 9Kw air conditioning units on the roof to remove the heat from the lighting.

Think you should reconsider?

 

[electronicsuk]

Also have you realised how much heat you get from 30 x 50W bulbs you will also need to install air conditioning to remove the heat.

The NEXT store in Chester I worked on had 6 x 9Kw air conditioning units on the roof to remove the heat from the lighting.

I agree with your other sentiments on circuit loading, but to say air conditioning will be required is a little extreme, and I'm finding it hard to tell over the internet whether there was any sarcasm involved!

Don't let your spark force you into buying fittings you don't want - although it might mean more effort for him, quick-connects are not the only way to remove the transformers from the circuit for IR testing. If it really is a priority, these are a good solution.

Oh, and do they really all need to be fire rated?

 

[JBPElectrics]

Recheck the design for that one.....May get through on paper ie diversity, but in reality it sounds like an absolute nightmare!

Dont forget, for design purposes you must rate eack at 100w.....3Kw

CBW

 

[bolst3r]

Ok, so I feel more info is needed, should have added this before – sorry. We have about 20 going in the kitchen/diner/family area and it's about 25 feet square. Each light will be 12v 50w and will have it's own transformer. The maximum amount of lights on a circuit will be 6. The sparky said he wants it all connected for testing as there's no point testing then reconnecting. The transformers used need to be able to take the 500v test.

I think for new building reg all lights have to be fire rated, it's certainly the case in our area.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[flameport]

I've fitted these in several properties: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/23642/
(The picture on the SF website is wrong, they don't have transformers as they are 230V types).

Fire rated - although probably not needed in most places, the enclosed can stops dust and dirt falling through the hole.
The front bezel is cast metal and far more substantial than the pressed types. It has 2 parts, the lamp clips into the centre ring, which twists into place to lock, so the lamp will always be positioned correctly (unlike ones with fixed lampholders). They will also accept most of the CFL and LED lamps.

They are supplied with lamps, although probably better to replace those with Sylvania or other good quality ones.

You will also need those plug in connectors as linked to previously, or chocboxes and 15A terminal strip.

 

[bolst3r]

thanks for the info, will take a look at those screwfix ones but I was looking LV (12v) lights with transformers.

I don't understand the previous comments about the bulbs, I thought all the old bulbs had already been phased out??? If I can buy Gu10 50w bulbs then surely these are ok, I thought halogens were more energy efficient anyway? I'm on about getting LV lamps so doesn't this count?

I don't want to start another debate about the pros and cons of low energy but the ones I have seen usually seem quite dull compared to 50w halogens.

 

[bolst3r]

Using low voltage (230v) GU10 would seem better option as they will take the cold cathode energy saving lamps in the future.

Hi EricMark, I thought 12v was LV? Usually I would use 240v, how is 230v lower than 12v?

excuse my ignorance.

 

[flameport]

Those ones are 230v halogen. The same ones can be obtained from SF in 12V, ( http://www.screwfix.com/prods/36502/ ) although as they have transformers this will mean significantly more items which can (and will) go wrong.

The point about the lamps is that while 12v and 230v halogen lamps are currently available, this is likely to change in the future.
Phasing out of inefficient lamps has only just started - the process will continue for several years, and the important point here is that what happens to downlighter lamps is currently undecided.

Halogen lamps are more efficient than standard incandescent lamps, however even the most efficient halogen lamp is still grossly inefficient compared to CFL or LED.

12v halogen lamps are more efficient than the 230v types, however with the 230v fittings, the option is there to fit many other types of lamps, wheras with 12v, the options will be seriously limited.

Voltages - LV is up to 1000v. 12v items are ELV.

 

[bolst3r]

so are you saying that at the moment 12v 50w halogens are more efficient than 230v versions but within the next few years this will be turned on it's head as there will be more options available for 230v?

What's to say they wont develop more types of bulbs for 12v systems? If there's a market surely they will or is there some technical constraint?

sorry been quite confused by this lot the last few days

 

[JBPElectrics]

12v 50w is less energy efficient than 240v 50w

low voltage is less than 600v?

Extra low voltage is less than 50v?

 

[RF Lighting]

A 50W ELV lamp provides more lumens per watt than a 50W LV lamp, therefore it is more energy efficient.

The IEC definitions of voltage bands are:

Extra Low Voltage: AC below 50V and DC below 120V
Low Voltage: 50 - 1000V AC or 120 - 1500V DC
Medium voltage: 1kV - 35kV
High voltage: 35kV - 230kV
Extra-high voltage: >230kV

 

[JBPElectrics]

Thanks for that!!! not sure!

So how does the old power triangle apply in this instance?

I struggle to make 12v 50w lamps more efficient

And 600v as the max for low voltage betwwen condutors and earth, I am not sure of this but please explain, also I remember that the next stage up from low voltage is high voltage and is classed as anything normally above low voltage.....Typical red book ****** but then It was just rammed down my throat

 

[RF Lighting]

You just need to look at the manufacturers literature to find out the lumens per watt rating of a lamp.

It is something to do with the construction of the halogen capsule being smaller and running hotter that allows a 12V lamp to produce more light for the same amount of power as it's 230V counterpart.

 

[RF Lighting]

And 600v as the max for low voltage betwwen condurtors and earth, I am sure of this but please explain

It is in America, but that isn't where we live

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_voltage