Consumer unit EICR c3 fail?

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Hi Guys,
I have a consumer unit regulation question I'd like help on please...
So this is for a 1 bedroom self contained rental property and not a HMO in England.
See picture....
So half of the circuits are covered by a RCBO and the wash machine, cooker and hot water tank are not. A spark has said it doesn't comply failed the eicr and requires all the MCB's to be replaced with RCBO's.
I was wondering if this is necessary? New tennant moving in soon.
Would another option be to have the RCCB moved to the left to cover all circuits? Or is the 63 amp rating for the RCCB to low to cover all circuits?
Thanks a lot guys any advice from someone who knows would be great please. Tony uk
 

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C3 is not a fail; merely improvement recommended.

So half of the circuits are covered by a RCBO and the wash machine, cooker and hot water tank are not. A spark has said it doesn't comply failed the eicr and requires all the MCB's to be replaced with RCBO's.
That is nonsense.

HOWEVER - as a landlord the only way to show that you have done everything you can to ensure the safety of tenants is to do as the electrician says.

You will likely need a new metal consumer unit as well.



I wouldn't bother if I were living there but that's not how it works for landlords these days.
 
Your picture does not show any RCBO's, and an EICR is the opinion of the inspector, it is not like a car MOT where there is a reasonable fixed pass or fail, or it says is the inspector feels it is Dangerous, Protenually Dangerous, Need improving, or there was some reason he could not inspect and test.

Only C1, C2 and FI are fails, the rest is advice.

I would not be happy with that consumer unit, but as to what needs doing not so easy. The problem is to change anything the person doing the change does need to comply with the current edition of BS 7671.

So it is really down to what a scheme member will do and issue a compliance certificate. Likely better to get a new fire resistance CU with all new RCBO's than faff around trying to upgrade it.

However if the two left hand MCB's had been RCBO's it would have likely passed.
 
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Thanks Guys, I was not given the paperwork for the two flats that failed just the one for one that passed. The guy said c3 but since I rang them they say its a c2 and must be done. I wanted them to move the 63 amp rcd to the left to cover all circuits to save a few hundred quid but they said it could be very fiddly and they might not be able to do that and then they would have to go to the wholesalers and get the rcbo,s and that would add on a lot of time to the job.
I can't see at all how moving the rcd over could be fiddly.
I decided to buy the RCBO's myself to save time and as they were saying they are not easy to find although they managed to tell me how much they were.
I'm not happy with their service after people are giving me differing accounts of what's what.
I spoke to the spark next door, he looked at the box and said it's an advisory not mandatory and he would have passed it.
Thanks guys
 
. I wanted them to move the 63 amp rcd to the left to cover all circuits
Not possible in that consumer unit, the busbar is a fixed 'plug in' style, the RCD can only be located where it is now.

RCBOs for that consumer unit are readily available everywhere.
 
The inspecting spark must provide you with the EICR with his invoice

You are under no obligation to use him to do the remedials

And I’m not convinced those circuits are anything but C3’s
 
The three non RCD protected circuits in theory can have their MCB's replaced with RCBO's, the bigger problem is where the plastic nature of the consumer unit is going to meet any potential legal requirements imposed on landlord (such as the result of a EICR for example) or if the whole consumer unit will need replacing with a modern metal one.
 
The regulations are here I have read through them, and like many laws it will require case law to clarify what they intended to say.

For example
“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;
it would seem clear some one who has passed the C&G 2391 would be considered as qualified, but it can also include others. But it states also
the private landlord must ensure that further investigative or remedial work is carried out by a qualified person
which seems to rule out DIY unless you can show you are a “qualified person”.

Had you done the remedial work before the inspection then it would have been different, however the changing of a consumer unit is notifiable which means in real terms your stuck, you can't repair it with DIY.

I gave the link to the law as it is rather open, in some ways, it states
“electrical safety standards” means the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018(3);
however the 18th edition also states the date when designs most comply (Note design not the date work is done) and that designs following previous editions are not necessary dangerous, so there is no requirement to upgrade old designs.

But we have two problems, one is BS 7671 may not be law, but in the main the changes necessary to maintain technical alignment with CENELEC harmonisation documents, and without reading all those documents no electrician can really know if a change is really required, and two often we get clarification rather than a change, and in doing so it may show what many were doing some years ago did not really comply, but they thought it did at the time.

New products do change what can be regarded as safe, when I was a boy we would clearly turn off power when changing a light bulb, as other wise we would burn our hands, but today light bulbs are much cooler, so we can easily touch them while the power is still on, only one example, but it points out why rules need to change.

So if I change the design of a circuit, by for example removing a MCB and replacing it with a RCBO it would need to comply with today's rules. And I would need to raise a minor works or installation certificate to say what I have done, and record the new test data. So I should not be reusing a plastic CU.

So doing it on the cheap = braking the rules. I am sure people brake the rules all the time. However what we also look at, is are we likely to get caught. So doing work on an owner occupied home no one is likely to complain, but in a rented home, in 5 years time some one will be scrutinising that work, being a scheme member is the only way to work on domestic, so no one in their right mind is going to do any work which could risk their scheme membership.

So I looked it up, a 8 way FuseBox F2020MX with all the RCBO's and SPD is £166.14 and not sure if right type, but a Crabtree RCBO is £27 to £40 depending on which ones will fit and that means still no SPD so you are talking about around £60 difference to do the job right or botch it up. OK there is also labour costs, but really you want an electrician to risk his livelihood to save you £60?

OK we can argue that maybe it should have passed, but that option is no longer open, so lets get down to brass tacks, you want some one to risk their livelihood to save you £60. God what sort of landlord are you?
 
Where did you get the £60 from ? The Rcbos cost £240 the Labour to fit them £150 ! That's £390 at their cheapest option OR
A new £160 fuse box and Collection from the whole saler and fitting £700 so £860!!!
I'm fantastic, I charge £400 a month
for large 1 bed self contained flats.
My work pays £11 an hour so I don't want to be told something needs changing if It is not necessary as it will mean rents have to go up.
If it needs doing for safety that's fair enough but then it would be a c1 c2.
Just feel its been underhanded. I should have been given a copy of the fail sheet so I could see what the situation was.
It wouldn't take me 10 mins to change the Bus bar and move the RCD over but I can't do it as my qualifications were back in 1982 and not upto the date.
But it gets up my nose when a spark says that could be fiddly and quite time consuming when I know it isn't.
Just people not being straight and taking the mick trying to get the last drop of you.
It's rife,
The roofer stuck 1 layer felt on with spray string adhesive ( quoted for 2 layers torched on) He had to come back rip it all off and do it again.
The gas fitter that vaccume checked the gas lines before connecting the meter, found a leak and said the concrete floor would have to come up and His mates a builder can probably fit me in but it's going to be a couple of grand. I checked his vacuum guages only to find a PIN HOLE in the rubber pipe!!!!! That was the leak. Nothing wrong with the floor.
I'm straight as a die, so my expectations are the same for other people and its very disappointing to realise how awful we people really are.
Going well off priest.
Anyway thanks very much guys for your replies, much appreciated
 
Where did you get the £60 from ? The Rcbos cost £240 the Labour to fit them £150 ! That's £390 at their cheapest option OR
A new £160 fuse box and Collection from the whole saler and fitting £700 so £860!!!


You should get some alternative quotes, the £240 materials cost for 3x starbreaker rcbos seems a bit high. They are just shy of
£35 https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/4624072-32a-sp-1-module-6ka-type-b-30ma-rcbo so I would expect somewhere in the region of £130 allowing for approx 25% market to cover sourcing and guarenteeing them. The £150 labour could be alright if he is blocking out half a day to travel, pick up, fit and do the paperwork.

In terms of the new board, the £160 materials cost probably means he is going to supply the cheapest dual RCD board possible and maybe even without surge protection, you would be better payong more and going down the all RCBO route. Labour cost on that one seems high, with only 7 cirucits, and having already done an EICR (so he knows where the cirucits are, where the end of lines are, and had done some of the testing already, so only really needs to re-do what can be affected by the board change) Its a comfortable day to change, finsih up the testing and sort the paperwork
 
Consumer unit £57.95 and RCBO £14.96 each or stick with Crabtree and RCBO is £30.84 so by fitting a new consumer unit one can use cheaper parts, so the difference between a fusebox whole consumer unit and Crabtree RCBO's is around £60 I did say that does not include labour, but it does include fitting a SPU so swings and roundabouts.

One could hardly fit a duel RCB board today, I had not even considered that option. But it is simply not worth messing around trying to get around fitting a new CU and up dating old one for that cost difference. That is really penny pinching.
 
The inspecting spark must provide you with the EICR with his invoice

You are under no obligation to use him to do the remedials

And I’m not convinced those circuits are anything but C3’s

OP - you need to take all this into consideration and fingers crossed you haven’t paid them yet
 
I have a similar Starbreaker board with an identical 3-module RCD. Busbar in mine goes full width but there were many variants of these boards. Worth taking off the cover to look. If it can't be moved my solution would be to fit 3 new Crabtree rcbos* as a DIY job, then get new EICR from someone different who doesn't know all the history.

* with certain limitations, dedicated circuits did not need to have RCD protection. Is that still true and if not is it retrospective?
 

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