Consumer unit replacement - main fuse?

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I presume I need to ask for a EIC upon completion of the work and ensure that the installer notifies local building control?

On completion I would expect an electrical installation certificate to be issued, this will also include schedules of inspection and schedules of test results.
The building controls certificate of compliance notification, would be made on completion of the work if you employ a scheme registered electrician, they generally give the installer one month to notify the work, if non registered electrician was used, then they need to apply prior to starting the work.
On completion and notification it can take up to 6 weeks for the compliance cert to be sent out to you.

Is the certificate issued on the day the work is done or do you have to wait? If you have to wait, is it normal practice not to pay up until you get the EIC? I cant see the installer being OK with that?!

They are not always issued on the day but should be issued in a short period after completion, I am happy for a portion of the money to be withheld until certificates are completed.

 

[Alfie25]

So to clarify,

1. I should get an EIC from the installer, either same day or within a few days of the job.

2. Then he (I'll be using a scheme registered guy) notifies building control and...

3. Consequently up to 6 weeks later I will receive a certificate of compliance.

After further discussion with the guy who gave me a price over the phone, he decided to visit as I have a separate little fuse box in the garage which he wanted a look at first. The price he quoted for the house CU still stands, plus the extra for the garage CU. He said he'd need to do several checks beforehand, writing a report, looking at earthing, taking down a light fitting up and downstairs etc so the whole job would take up most of a day. I broached the 'pulling the main fuse' question, and he said he would not break the seal as he's not authorised to do so. I've not got an isolator fitted so he said he would essentialy work on it live.

Obviously this aint ideal, but neither is pulling the main fuse. I can see why electricians are stuck between a rock and a hard place on this matter!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

1. I should get an EIC from the installer, either same day or within a few days of the job.

Yes

2. Then he (I'll be using a scheme registered guy) notifies building control

They notify their scheme provider, how then deals with building controls, the installer has one month on completion to inform them.

3. Consequently up to 6 weeks later I will receive a certificate of compliance.

Sometimes they are sent out very quickly after notification but I know from experience that after I have notified there has been periods of six weeks before the customer has received the certificate of compliance.
So if you take into account that the installer has month to notify and BCs can take 6 weeks, worse case would be 10 weeks from completion.

Obviously this aint ideal, but neither is pulling the main fuse. I can see why electricians are stuck between a rock and a hard place on this matter!

In general it stinks! It ain't rocket science to remove a fuse, providing you take the correct precautions prior to removal.

 

[oo7]

PBD, can you recommend a quality gauntlet glove?

 

[JohnW2]

I broached the 'pulling the main fuse' question, and he said he would not break the seal as he's not authorised to do so. I've not got an isolator fitted so he said he would essentially work on it live. Obviously this aint ideal, but neither is pulling the main fuse. I can see why electricians are stuck between a rock and a hard place on this matter!

I would certainly say that something has gone very wrong if an electrician is more frightened of pulling the fuse without 'authorisation' than he is to work live on the meter tails.

Both activities carry risks but, as PBoD has implied, provided an electrician knows what he is doing, takes appropriate precautions and knows which cutouts to keep away from, there is surely little doubt as to which is the safer of the two options?

Kind Regards, John

 

[westie101]

takes appropriate precautions and knows which cutouts to keep away from

That is my concern that they may not, particularly the identification of the dangerous types, which may not be obvious.
Also what to inspect on the main fuse before re-energising.

This is stuff that is taught to authorised persons on our system and regularly updated.

 

[JohnW2]

takes appropriate precautions and knows which cutouts to keep away from

That is my concern that they may not, particularly the identification of the dangerous types, which may not be obvious. Also what to inspect on the main fuse before re-energising. This is stuff that is taught to authorised persons on our system and regularly updated.

Those are all valid and important points. However, although I often get criticised for 'realism/pragmatism', I do think it's probably appropriate here - and you can call it a 'risk assessment' if you wish .... if, stupid though it might be, it is the intention (as per the cases quoted above) of an electrician to work live on meter tails if he is not allowed to pull the cutout fuse, then which is the safer? There obviously would be 'much better' solutions, but unless/until they are implemented (or effectively policed), it seems appropriate to accept the safer, or safest, of what options actually exist in a real world situation.

Kind Regards, John

 

[westie101]

To be honest I wouldn't disagree that the safest option should be the appropriate choice. Though both carry risk so need to be appropriately managed.

The concern on some types is that if the electrician is unaware of the risks attached to certain types (and in all honesty evidence shows that even the MOPs can't get it right) then he is not in a position to make a correct choice. And may choose to work live, again something that should not be occurring.

Whilst I get the concern about costs and the difficulties of getting the DNO/supplier involved, neither would be seen as an acceptable excuse if it all went wrong whichever method was chosen.

 

[JohnW2]

To be honest I wouldn't disagree that the safest option should be the appropriate choice. Though both carry risk so need to be appropriately managed.

Quite so.

The concern on some types is that if the electrician is unaware of the risks attached to certain types (and in all honesty evidence shows that even the MOPs can't get it right) then he is not in a position to make a correct choice. And may choose to work live, again something that should not be occurring.

Agreed - but, in the sort of scenario we're discussing, one is unfortunately choosing between 'a rock and a hard place' (i.e. neither option is really desirable), not between 'a rock and a soft place' - so it really has to come down to assessment of the relative risks of the options which are being decided between.

Whilst I get the concern about costs and the difficulties of getting the DNO/supplier involved, neither would be seen as an acceptable excuse if it all went wrong whichever method was chosen.

Again, no disagreement - but we've just heard about one electrician who is choosing only between those two (both 'unsafe') options, and I'm sure he's not the only one.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

PBD, can you recommend a quality gauntlet glove?

You can try these and see if you get a tickle!

Untitled

• PrenticeBoyofDerry
• 14 Mar 2014
• 1

 

[Taylortwocities]

Westie (& co) at work

Untitled

• Taylortwocities
• 11 Jun 2011
• 8

 

[oo7]

PBD, can you recommend a quality gauntlet glove?

You can try these and see if you get a tickle!

Untitled

• PrenticeBoyofDerry
• 14 Mar 2014
• 1

No, they're the gloves that the doctor uses when checking your prostate!

 

[Alfie25]

So is the concensus that it's better to pull the fuse as opposed to taping up the terminals and working live? Out of interest, using the working live method, if anything went wrong, what's the worse that could happen to my house? (Im already aware it could be fatal for the installer).

 

[JohnW2]

So is the concensus that it's better to pull the fuse as opposed to taping up the terminals and working live?

I'm not sure what terminals you're thinking of taping up but, IF the choice had to be only between pulling the fuse and working live, and if the fuse were being pulled from a fairly modern cutout then I suppose that would be the lesser of the two (both potentially fatal) evils. The choice obviously never does have to be that limited, although I don't doubt that a good few electricians routinely take that course.

Out of interest, using the working live method, if anything went wrong, what's the worse that could happen to my house?

There is a theoretical risk of fire, although just some molten metal (and perhaps bits of the electrician) spattered around are probably much more likely. If the electrician did die, it's very probable that would happen without your house coming to any harm, not that such would be much consolation to him.

(Im already aware it could be fatal for the installer).

Quite apart from 'the obvious', I think there could be potential for that also to also impact on you. You would be contracting, and paying, him to do work for you. If you allowed him to do things (for which you were paying) in the knowledge that they were dangerous, reckless and potentially lethal to him, I can see that it could be argued that you potentially had some (legal and financial) responsibilities.

Kind Regards, John

 

[efiste2]

Westie (& co) at work

is that flame retardent clothing he is wearing ?

AS most will know on here the DNO CUTOUT will take no prisoners if it faults, they can be deadly as one poor jointer found out last year. PLEASE make sure anyone working on or near it is fully experienced with what they are and what they CAN do if they go wrong, 99.9 percent of the time its fine, but if in ANY doubt call in the DNO.