Hopefully not, as that person appears to be removing the fuse with the isolator switched ON.Westie (& co) at work
Consumer unit replacement - main fuse?
- Thread starter Alfie25
- Start date
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Interesting points John. All I've done is call a guy who is registered with a trade body (found him on their website) and asked him to come out and quote for the replacement. It's only through sites like these (and my own inquisitive nature) that lead me to ask how he intended to deal with the main fuse/DNA situation. Surely the onus is on the registered professional to take the correct course of action. If not, then why have these trade bodies.
I realise that you are an innocent player in all this. The problem, certainly 'morally' (i.e. in terms of your conscience), and just possibly legally (I have no idea) seems to have arisen because you now know what he intends to do - a consequence of your inquisitiveness, I suppose!
As for the 'trade bodies', whilst I don't imagine you have any wish to rock any boats, I would think that the body concerned would be very unhappy if they were to be told what this particular member of their organisation intended to do.
Kind Regards, John
I would doubt that many people would argue with any of that.AS most will know on here the DNO CUTOUT will take no prisoners if it faults, they can be deadly as one poor jointer found out last year. PLEASE make sure anyone working on or near it is fully experienced with what they are and what they CAN do if they go wrong, 99.9 percent of the time its fine, but if in ANY doubt call in the DNO.
However, the situation being discussed here is not quite that straightforward. We are being told that because ('since he is not authorised so to do') the electrician would not be prepared to pull the cutout fuse, he would work live on the meter tails instead - which probably presents a considerably greater risk.
Kind Regards, John
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It really is a tough one isn't it. Am I right in thinking the correct/legit option would be one of the following:
1. To get the DNO out beforehand to pull the main cutout and then afterward to re-instate it. From reading my suppliers FAQs, you get a 2 hour appointment for each which wont exactly help matters. The sparky needs to do an inspection before changing the CU, so I presume for this, the supply needs to be turned on. So in other words, he would need to visit once to do his inspection, come back another day when the DNO pulls the fuse, then once finished, I presume we’d have to wait for the DNO to return to re-instate the fuse before he could then do the post-installation checks. Sounds like a lot of time spent waiting around.
2. See if I can get my supplier to fit a DP isolator prior to any work being carried out, so all parties are happy. I’ll look into this, although it does seem like overkill (if you excuse the expression), when it’s only for the sake of installing a new CU. My supplier does offer the service, although all the blurb on their website gears it towards local authority housing/private housing associations as opposed to domestic households like myself.
It’s giving me a headache so I do fully understand why the guy wanted to work live. If he pulls the cutout fuse, he risks a fine/penalty from his registered scheme. If we ask the DNO to pull the fuse, it adds a lot of time and hassle onto the job. Indeed I do not want to rock any boats John, but surely these schemes - NAPIT/NICEIC etc can't expect their guys to go down the DNO route every time - they'd never get any work done! But likewise they can't pull the fuse if not authorised as this has consequences too. Would love to know which unofficial practice they expect their members to take.
1. To get the DNO out beforehand to pull the main cutout and then afterward to re-instate it. From reading my suppliers FAQs, you get a 2 hour appointment for each which wont exactly help matters. The sparky needs to do an inspection before changing the CU, so I presume for this, the supply needs to be turned on. So in other words, he would need to visit once to do his inspection, come back another day when the DNO pulls the fuse, then once finished, I presume we’d have to wait for the DNO to return to re-instate the fuse before he could then do the post-installation checks. Sounds like a lot of time spent waiting around.
2. See if I can get my supplier to fit a DP isolator prior to any work being carried out, so all parties are happy. I’ll look into this, although it does seem like overkill (if you excuse the expression), when it’s only for the sake of installing a new CU. My supplier does offer the service, although all the blurb on their website gears it towards local authority housing/private housing associations as opposed to domestic households like myself.
It’s giving me a headache so I do fully understand why the guy wanted to work live. If he pulls the cutout fuse, he risks a fine/penalty from his registered scheme. If we ask the DNO to pull the fuse, it adds a lot of time and hassle onto the job. Indeed I do not want to rock any boats John, but surely these schemes - NAPIT/NICEIC etc can't expect their guys to go down the DNO route every time - they'd never get any work done! But likewise they can't pull the fuse if not authorised as this has consequences too. Would love to know which unofficial practice they expect their members to take.
I think the Isolator is a good idea regardless, and while you may think its just a one-off for a CU change, it may come in handy in the future for further works or maintenance.
Indeed - and, as others have said, the latter is probably preferable, since it means that you would never have to go through all this again in the future.
Maybe, but I would certainly question his personal priorities. Is a fine (even if there is one) really worse than death?
I would assume that their official line has got to be that is has to be done 'properly' - it would be totally inappropriate for them to give official blessing to 'unofficial practices'!
Kind Regards, John
You'll tend to find it is the supplier that would offer this service, don't forget that if the tails are being changed the work will also involve breaking the meter seals.
Certainly we have no staff that do this work now
(suppliers do have staff trained and authorised to operate the DNO cut-out)
is that flame retardent clothing he is wearing ?
AS most will know on here the DNO CUTOUT will take no prisoners if it faults, they can be deadly as one poor jointer found out last year. PLEASE make sure anyone working on or near it is fully experienced with what they are and what they CAN do if they go wrong, 99.9 percent of the time its fine, but if in ANY doubt call in the DNO.
What did happen to the jointer? I saw the memo from the DNO a couple of days after but not the subsequent report.
Out of interest, is it OK to have the isolator fitted next to the meter if it's outside? I ask as my meter is in a box on the outside wall. I'm not sure I like the idea of a master switch for the entire house's electrics mounted in a box that anyone with a meter box key/long nosed pliers can access!
Saying that, I suppose external gas and water supplies are just as easy to turn off maliciously.
Saying that, I suppose external gas and water supplies are just as easy to turn off maliciously.
From what I can make out, they vary in terms of what they are, and are not, prepared to have installed on their backboards, whether in an outdoor meter box or elsewhere. However, wouldn't it be more coinvenient for you if an isolator were installed indoors, close to the CU, anyway?
Kind Regards, John
From what I've seen, the DP isolator is just a big switch. Again the ones I've seen (in the flesh and in pictures) have been attached directly beside the meter on the backboard. I've only seen ones in internal positions though.
Of course in my house, the meter and board is outside with the Fuse box inside (no visible cables as they go directly into the back of it) so if I had the supplier out to fit an isolator I don't think they'd be removing the consumer unit would they?
Of course in my house, the meter and board is outside with the Fuse box inside (no visible cables as they go directly into the back of it) so if I had the supplier out to fit an isolator I don't think they'd be removing the consumer unit would they?
Yes, it's just a big switch. When installed internally, they are, indeed, often/usually positioned as you indicate. I don't know, but there might be more reticence to put one in an external meter box, where space could be more limited. Having said that, I would personally prefer not to have an isolator in an 'easily accessed' external meter box, per yourearlier comments!
That could be a complication, which you would need to discuss with them and your electrician. Given that complication, you may be better off having it in the meter box (if they'll do that), despite the 'downsides' of that approach.
Kind Regards, John
There are isolators which can be protected from un-authorised operation.
But if someone is intent on turning off power to a house and has access to the meter box then they will do it by pulling the fuse if there is no other means to isolate.
But if someone is intent on turning off power to a house and has access to the meter box then they will do it by pulling the fuse if there is no other means to isolate.
There are, but then one comes up against the inevitable conflict between preventing unauthorised operation and allowing easy/rapid legitimate operation in 'emergency' situations!
True, or even insulated cutters. However, an 'unprotected' isolator would be a much more likely/tempting target for, say, 'mischievous youngsters'!
Kind Regards, John
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