Demolishing internal masonry wall

[ljmountain]

I am in the process of demolishing a non load bearing internal masonry wall, the wall is between the kitchen and dining room. Here is a photo of the wall:

Untitled

• ljmountain
• 12 Apr 2010
• 2

and a plan of the house:

Untitled

• ljmountain
• 13 Apr 2010
• 2

.

The house is a 1950's ex-council, the external walls are 2 skinned fletton bricks with cavity.

I have removed the plaster along where the internal wall meets the external wall (to check construction). The internal wall is tied into the external wall, the pattern of tie in repeats as follows:
- 3 bricks no tie in
- 3 bricks the skin of the cavity wall has been cut away so that the interior 3 bricks are tied into the exterior wall

It looks to me that the interior wall was put in place after the exterior walls but I am not expert on house construction. My concern is that the interior wall is important to the structure of the house, hence this post.

Is this a common method of tieing in walls (or at least was it in the past) and I am ok to continue with the demolition?

If this is the case (which I think it is), how should I go about cutting the bricks that are tied in? Bolster, angle grinder?
Thanks in advance.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

It is not clear which wall it is you wish to remove. Whilst there may not be a first floor wall resting on your ground floor wall, the floor joists may well be, so the wall may be structural. You'll have to see which way the floor joists are running to find out. Once you know that then come back.

If your stairs/hallway up to the first floor are not separated from the living/dinning room/kitchen etc at ground level it is likely that your proposed layout will not comply with Building Regulations.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The plan seems to indicate that the bathroom is above the wall you wish to remove, although no walls are directly above this wall, as freddies twin has stated this does not mean the wall is not supporting joist above.
The wall could also be helping to support the external wall from falling away.
So some more investigation is needed. It's advisable that a structural engineer does some calculations, this will offer peace of mind and insurances.
Once that is cleared up, the best way I find to remove bricks that are tied in, is to drill them close to the wall, with an SDS drill and bit(around 6mm bit)
So you are drilling three to four vertical holes in each brick, then the brick can be broken away and flattened up using a chisel, this will help prevent any movement of the bricks in the external wall

 

[Static]

Deja vu..
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1578292#1578292

 

[ljmountain]

I opened a new thread because I thought this was a separate issue about cutting bricks. When writing the post that I thought I should explain the house layout so that the question was in context. Apologies if this is the wrong etiquette.

The wall that I propose (already removed top two layers of bricks.. ) to demolish runs parallel to the joists (90 degrees to the floorboards). The wall is actually built directly underneath one of the joists (no wall above). I have lifted quite a few floor boards and can see the ends of this joist clearly supported by the wall between lounge and kitchen at one end and cut into the external wall at the other. The wall between the lounge/kitchen supports half of the house joists, and the wall between the hall\dining room supports the other joists (the first floor joists span the house in two sections).

My concern would be around two points raised in this thread:
1) Is the wall giving structural support to the external wall. Does anyone know about 1950's council house design??
2) Is the wall somehow inadvertently supporting the bathroom. It would appear to me that the wall would fully support one joist. However I as mentioned I am obviously no construction expert, plus the house layout may have changed over time.

I've checked all of the joists in the loft and they fully span the house (no resting on structural walls).

Thanks again for all the feedback. I still need help though.....

 

[Static]

Thanks for the further clarification..
It is highly likely that the wall between the kitchen and dining room area (one being removed) is giving lateral support to the external wall with so many large openings in it.. and the ext wall being what 8m long.. especially as its toothed in..

There is a slim change the ext wall could be proven to be self supporting without a lateral wall but its unlikely and also a lengthy calc needing way way more info than what you have provided..

I would advise leaving in a small nib of brickwork on the external wall side.. say 330mm long..

Either that or get an SE round to take responsibility for the wall removal..

 

[ljmountain]

Static thank you very much for the quick reply, I am at work and having a slight panic about my weekend building activities.

Your lateral support comment regarding the exterior wall makes a lot of sense to me. I have done quite a lot of research about the support from above and an 99.9% sure there is no issue here (I've also had advice from a couple of builders doing quotes for other things saying ok to remove wall - although none mentioned the external support issue!!).

What I haven't done is remove all of the plaster between the other wall join (kitchen\lounge). I've done a rough job and I don't think the tie in is anywhere as great (if at all). Do you think I'll need to worry about a nib at this end as well.

Thank you very much for the advice so far (thanks to PrenticeBoyofDerry & FreddyMercurysTwin also!).

 

[Static]

Dont panic.. its not going to fall down..

Just if we do get a really heavy storm you may find your plaster around the windows and doors in that wall cracking up slightly.. and over time exterior cracks will appear.. not gonna happen overnight unless we get slapped by another hurricane.. or you live in a very windy part of the scottish highlands..

The stability of the wall also relys on the weight above it so as i said there is a possibility that it could be designed to work.. no guarantees so best to pop a small pier back in and sleep well..